Don Pauter has been responding to questions about the road worthy-ness of his 3ltr KG on a couple of US forums for years, if you search you'll find it's been regularly driven on the street since 05'. Since being built as a rolling test bed he also often lets his friends and family members take it just to rack up the milage, I've been along myself on a numberous trips where refueling was needed for the return home, regular unleaded btw. True while in it's current state it's power may be matched by a well engineered type 4 but how easily, reliablly or cost effectively would be questionable, neither could be considered an entry level program. Seems to me someone with enough knowledge of a large 3ltr+ displaced air cooled engine program would certainly recognize the advantages of a readily available, over the counter roller cammed, flanged cranked, Detroit bearing based engine block.

I don't think that should be a problem for him as he outsources his machinework and custom casting jobs already. He has birals made as well at some point and that seems equally complicated..
I dunno.

He has developed his own alu-nicasil cylinders about 10 years ago and still has them in his program,they´re on his website also.They have very thick walls and start with a 100mm bore.The reason he doesn´t use them with his big heads, and I did ask him when I had the "Alusil" cylinders in my hand is simple: A.) they cost a lot to make. B.) he has never had cooling or sealing issues with the much cheaper and stronger Deutz cylinders.In his opinion,the temperature problems do not result frrom the cylinders,but from the heads.He simply hasn´t had the need to use the Alusil (as he calls them) cylinders when his head temps are 160° C on the street.Heads,exhaust,tuning and of course a proper fan shroud is more important according to to him.

@Don m: Don Pauter´s 3 liter motor is impressive and I know it´s been in his Ghia since 2005 as a daily driver.The question is,however,how would it hold up on the european autobahns where the average speed is much higher than in the states? Here we have an overall average of about 130Km/h (80mph) ,sometimes full throttle of 130+mph for for 5 or 10 minutes regularly.I´m not doubting Don Pauters ability or his quality,but that engine is made for a differe3nt market, like the typical daily driver and weekend 1/4 mile racer.

@Don m: Don Pauter´s 3 liter motor is impressive and I know it´s been in his Ghia since 2005 as a daily driver.The question is,however,how would it hold up on the european autobahns where the average speed is much higher than in the states? Here we have an overall average of about 130Km/h (80mph) ,sometimes full throttle of 130+mph for for 5 or 10 minutes regularly.I´m not doubting Don Pauters ability or his quality,but that engine is made for a differe3nt market, like the typical daily driver and weekend 1/4 mile racer.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree, DIFFERENT MARKET, DIFFERENT USE. Anyway
there is another rumor going on though. Another strong builder JP from Sweden. He has done IMPRESSIVE STUFF to say at least with type i engines. The new rumor is that he will start building parts for type iv engines as well. If that happens we will see great parts coming up for serious performance addicts.

I am of the impression that the Remmele T1-T4 heads actually run hotter then stock heads as a friend of mine has one of his Remmele 2,8ltr engines with those heads and I saw CHT running onwards to nearly 600F (under the spark plug) when he stepped on it on the street for a relatively short moment.
My assumption (but you knwowhat they say about ASSumptions :lmao:) is that those heads also CAN run hotter without much problems because they are so strong/stiff. Its just not that good for tuning imo. Alu cylinders would be able to take some heat away from the heads, especially those solid cast heads would benefit imo.
So the cylinders are indeed not a heat problem in itself, but can help solve the heat problem of the heads...

Also nikasil coating would minimize the friction heat and losses. Its always better solution therefore imho to run alu-nikasil on such an engine and usually worth the cost when you compare total cost of a Remmele engine.
BTW: Alusil is NOT the same as alu with a nikasil coating!! Alusil is what the old 944/928 engines used as block and liner material. MB used it too. Nikasil is better, but a tiny bit more expensive than alusil. Well worth the extra effort imo and so did porsche.

Just my 2 cents..

Wally have you heard anything about JP regarding type iv components?

No, not really, just that he could make a raptor cam if you provide him with a blank, but that was to be expected.

What could he make that isn't already available you think?

Have you seen his heads for type i applications. The guy is a legend up there.

http://www.jpmotorsport.se/

Check him out and let me know what you think.

according to him with current gearing the car runs 70-80mph @ 2400-2800 rpm, right in the cars' sweet spot and will run there all day, up hill, down hill doesn't matter. 3000 nets 85mph and still no problems if the CHP isn't watching, 4000= 115mph if you're brave enough, he says beyond that he doesn't want to play anymore, you win.

I already know of him for some time of course, but his head is not that much different then a Remmele or Engine Plus type 1-style head if it would be made for type4, hence my wonder what he could make for type 4 that isn't already there? We already have at least 4 or 5 (6 if I count them all) type 1 style heads that (also) fit type 4.
Or it would be for a better price? Don't think that will be the case with the small T4 market...
A better cast/machined type 4 head with downward exiting exhaust ports like the original T4, now THAT would be a new thing I could spring for!

hi
TSAF as i know we have a gay here in Greece that is his dealer
as i know he is now up there in Sweden at a dyno day or something.
so you can give him a call and learn more details
check his site http://spracing.gr/

I prefer to deal directly with the source.

I remember you telling about your friends car witrh the Remmele heads.I don´t know why his motor runs that hot to be honest.You´re probably right also about Remmele´s heads beeing able to withstand more heat.But again,i can´t confirm that.I can only confirm what I have seen;)
Yes, the Alusil cylinders are different from the Nickies.However,the Remmele cylinders are also aluminum with nakasilcoating that were cast in a steel mold (Stahlkokille).You can nickasil coat any cylinder.Most aircraft cylinders are nickasil coated,the ones that aren´t are chrome coated (which is not better).The saturation and time if nickasil determines how far into the material it penetrates and therefore it longevity and wear properties.

Johannes Person makes some fantastic stuff,no doubt.But I agree with Wally,what can he make that hasn´t been done before and would it be somewhat affordable? His type 1 stuff is top notch and so is the price. Also,the quality parts that are out there are becoming increasingly expensive.Meanwhile Jake Raby´s engines cost just as much as Remmele´s engines do,because the costs to build them has risen aswell.Soon Remmele will have his own cranks,rods and pistons made in Germany in his programm,so he will no longer be dependant on overseas companies and their occasional quality issues.But since Remmele introduced his 3 liter,the price hasn´t gone up even with the improvements he has made.
There are a lot of good engines and engine builders in this industry,just depends on what you want.

True!!!!!

You mean guy and not GAY!!!!!!:D:D:D

LOL....dangerous spelling there :D

True again!!!

gay Lighthearted, sportive mirthful, showy, brilliant, (slang) homosexual. OED.

sorry:o:o
not gay...guy:D:D:D

There are quite a few guys out in California that are now working on making turnkey 3L type1's for a decent price. Hopefully we will see them soon.

Visited Eddie back in '06. He took me for a ride, and it didn't feel like an 11sec car. It did pull hard and steady through all 5 gears.

His next "upgrade" was to install carbon fiber doors on it.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/...6.jpg~original

Big wheels that were mentioned:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/...9.jpg~original

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/...3.jpg~original

Video: had to sit on the passenger floor and hold on to the roll cage, as there was no seat installed on that side:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/...3.jpg~original

Pete

Nice video Pete! He was taking it easy ;) Probably because there was no seat installed.It can be much more violent than in the video.The new engines are a little stronger also.The engine in the picture has been sold,currently the car doesn´t have an engine in it. I think there´s a 3.2 finished that will be installed - if it doesn´t get sold first:rolleyes:

The sound is terrible on the video. I would love to hear this engine rev up hard.

I know the sound sucks, but this small picture camera is all i had with me.

http://canon.digital-cameras-photo.c...0064O89Y-M.jpg

When Eddie said, wanna go for a ride - jump in.... was i to refuse because i didn't have a video camera handy? :lmao:


Pete

Yes, it was the same for me too, had to sit on the floor! But those were not the wheels when I was there, it was the ones on the vw speed mag. Eddie and Beate are nice people. and their pet dobermans!! Will visit them mid this month if they are open.

They should be open until the 19th iirc. The car has 19" wheels on it now from OZ.

Will call them when i reach Munich, only be there from 18-22.

rs-motor
 

What about these heads from rs-motor

Technical data:
-Intake valves 46.5 to 54 mm, outlet 38 to 44 mm
-6 cylinder mounting point
-Spark plug M12 x 1.25
-Outlet for Type 1 Style Exhaust
-Billet valve cover screwed with 6-O-ring seal
-Combustion chamber, intake port, exhaust port completely CNC machined
-Cylinder bore 103 - 105 mm
-Price from 1,590 €
The photos are very impressive to say at least.

http://www.rs-motor.at/2009/08/bille...he-356912.html

What do you think in terms of cooling?

Looks very nice, but difficult to judge what cooling will be like.
I don't know anyone who runs those yet.

Would that price be for two complete heads? If so, that would be a breakthrough in pricing!

RS-Motor does good work actually. I´m not sure how well those heads will cool being billet aluminum.They´re definetly strong enough and would work well for racing applications on short tracks or drag racing or hillclimb,but I would have my doubts about prolonged use.The price is acceptable as they have virtually the same heads for a 912/356 application.The whole kit costs 3000 euros.That´s a decent price.It´s too bad they didn´t post any more info on those heads on their website or other engines with those heads mounted.Onboard videos or dyno videos are a great tool for convincing potential customers.Interesting ,they have a 3 Liter with Remmele heads on their site that is in a bus..

And a 2.7 ltr 'race' engine that makes similar or even more hp iirc with... original head castings :lmao:

So basically we do not have any serious feedback about them.

Im buliding a 2789cc pauter engine for my street car. There seems to be a bit of wrong info here regarding the pauter engine.
There is no such thing as a type 4 pauter engine, Pauters only make super pro heads in type 4 stud pattern., no engine blocks
Pauter blocks are available in type 1 stud pattern, autocraft stud pattern , arpm stud pattern and pauters own spread bore stud pattern for 4 plus bore sizes.
the blocks accept either a type 1 flanged crank with type 4 mains, this block has a steel back chrysler main and proper thrust bearing, the chrysler main is the same diameter as the type 4!
The other block in pauters spread bore pattern uses ford 351 v8 main bearings, and pauters billet crank.

I have Don pauters blessing with what I am doing. My compression will be set at 9.5:! and will run on 98 pump gas.
Cylinder heads fins have been deepened by Don for street use
I will have mine on our super flow 902 engine dyno later in the year. and then in my 65 bug.

I don'nt think Pauters encourage the sale of the engines for street use as they do not have a complete off the shelf street package, however if you call them and let them know you have the capability of seeing the project through, they will entertain you. Don is a great guy, very helpfull and truthfull.

Some pics

Hi drgouk,that is correct.The option was either a complete Pauter engine or a large type 4 with Pauter heads vs. a large type 4 with Engine Plus,stock type 4 head castings,Remmele or RS heads.;)

Regardless,Pauter makes excellent engines and has excellent products and service.The cooling capacity of the Pauter head is limited and not really ideal for autobahn or circle track use.It wasn´t designed to be so either. It is great as a street/strip application.