Just ordered a V2 DTM kit from Jake Raby! Now I just have to wait... That's ok because I have a ton to get down before then anyway.

Opinions on external oil coolers with electric fan? Placement?

Also, my motor was built, bench dyno'd and initial break in, and then it sat in an airconditioned garage for 15 years. It was turned over a couple times a year. It was recommended to me that I replace the valve springs in case they have "dead spots" in them from sitting in one position for so long.

Is this recommended? Necessary?

What other things should I be thinking about before I start this engine? Before I install the cooling shroud?

I would not replace the valve springs. You did turn it a couple times a year. I would turn it over with the spark plugs out until you indicate oil pressure. Maybe repeat that a coupe times. Then start it and run it up to 2500 rpm for 10-15 minutes. Make sure you use an oil with the proper ZZDP levels.

How do I know what the right zddp levels are? I was reading that zddp over 1200ppm can be damaging to the cam, causing spalling. I also read that higher performance motors who change the oil regularly after each event often use higher zddp level due to the increased pressures of higher spring rates.

Any suggestion on a good oil to do an initial re-break in? Should I break it in, drain the oil, and change oils? What do people commonly use, for break in and for normal use?

Also, would it not be a good safety measure to just replace the valve springs? Wouldn't the potential consequences of having a bad valve be valve float which could cause catastrophic damage? How difficult is it to replace the springs? Are there other things to adjust once the valve springs are replaced?

This car has been a learning experience for me the entire time, and these forums have provided invaluable help. The engine is the final frontier for me and I know I have a LOT to learn. I appreciate all the help everyone has given me this far!

-Zach

I'm also interested in this zddp thing. Is it necessary just for the brake-in period or always onwards?

Good reading on oil. http://http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
1200 ppm is a good guideline for the minimum ZDDP level to use in a flat tappet engine.

I rebuilt my Super Beetle steering box today.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8371/8...139d6e0f_b.jpg

Ordered new seals online. If anyone is wondering, the super beetle steering box oil seals are made by Federal Mogul, National Oil Seals. The sizes are listed below both in metric and american. You can search for them using the metric sizing. You can also get them from SKF at NAPA but you will need the part number.

28x40x7 (1.102"x1.575"x.276")

18x30x7 (.709"x1.181"x.276")

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8515/8...156f8c0c_b.jpg

I filled the box up with transmission oil, Swepco 201, and so far no leaks.

I still can't remove all the play from the box. The tolerances seem to get tighter when the steering is dead center. So when the pitman arm is all the way left or right, there is play, but as you approach center, the play disappears. I inspected the worm gear and roller and they seemed in pretty good condition. There is no axial play in either of the shafts. I was wondering if this was a design in the gear box so that there is no play in the steering wheel when driving straight. Per the Bentley manual you are supposed to adjust the "worm to roller" lash when the wheels are turned at a 45 degree angle. If I adjust the lash so there is no play in the pitman arm at 45 degrees, the gear box locks up as it approaches center and I can't turn it. It is apparently supposed to be smooth throughout the rotation with no play in the pitman arm. :rolleyes:

Hey Guys,

I'm looking at gauges right now... I really like these, what do you think? I am still looking around but I will likely have a similar set up as I do not have a dash.

http://www.dragraceresults.com/image...d/2gauges1.jpg

Should I go all mechanical gages? What is the benefit of electric? Will the electric sending units even work with our cars? I was thinking of wiring a microprocessor (Arduino) into one of the terminal blocks of the Watson Wiring kit i was going to use. This way I could use one terminal to power an assortment of switches, power electric gauges, LED lighting, and any other cool project I can think of.

Any input? The VDO gauges aren't doing it for me... Except for those damn North Hollywood Gauges! Hot damn those Red GT3 RS gauges are the sexiest thing I have ever seen.

Autometer makes nice stuff. They have a good selection of senders except for CHT (the last time I looked). You can use a Westach CHT gauge and sender and paint the rim with aluminum paint and it will blend in.
Be sure to look at Westach gauges. I love their dual and quad gauges for saving space.

Do I need to run a CHT on each cylinder? If I just wanted to run a dual CHT gauge, which cylinders would I put the sensors on? Was it Cylinder #3 that runs the hottest? Should I put the sensors on #3 and #4 so I can see the delta between those two? This concerns me because then I have no information about the right side of the engine... Those quad CHT sensors are expensivo!

The 356 experts say to set up the steering box and steering arms so that the box is precisely centred at straight ahead as there is minimal play at that point. As you move away from dead ahead the play is more but less important.

Important note on gauges: if you are going fuel injected and have an ecu with a serial or can output, you might want to consider a digital dash instead. I spent ove $1200 in autometer electric gauges and senders, as well as a dual cyl. head temp gauge. I could have saved $350 or so and gone with a programable dash from racetechnologies, or racepak.

I'll be ditching my autometer gauges in the race bug and going with a programmable dash for the new motor.

fwiw, here's the gauges I run
5" tach, 5" speedo, 2 5/8" fuel, ego (wideband), boost 30 psi, oil temp, oil pressure, and dual cht on #2 and #3

So I am currently not going Fuel injected, but it is a long term goal. (Turbo FI) I'm assuming that the programmable dashes are not compatible without an ECU.

It depends on the dash, some can use external sensors, and some only poll the ecu over serial/can bus. Typically, logging capable dashes will take external sensors, or have an additional box that does. Either way, a logger is nice to have regardless of setup, but usually adds 50% to the cost.

I am running a DTM shroud and have a CHT gauge for #1 and #3.

Sense will out, but i see the weight saving advantage, high weight too, so a handling plus.

huh?

I am pretty sure I will get these seats, Sparco Sprint 5. They are narrow enough to fit in the bug without looking awkward in my opinion. FIA approved and have the submarine hole for the 5th belt.

http://www.the370z.com/members/boost...-harnesses.jpg

What is your opinion. 4 or 5 point seat belts? Any sanctioned race will require 5 point, but is it overkill for me? I will be doing track days, but doubt I will be doing full fledged races. That being said, the safer the better. My worry is if they will be a pain to put on and off, but I have heard 4 point are more of a PITA than 5.

For any track event 5 or 6 point best. Antisubmarine very important feature that 4 point can't provide.

Not that inconvenient to take on and off with practice.
Alex

I feel like I'm turning this build into a random questionaire... haha. Anyway, I am looking to install a push start ignition in the car. I think I understand how to wire one up with a relay, but I found this diagram.

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/9/7...8773979_tp.jpg

Doesn't the Engine Start button side of the relay need a low current power supply in order to actuate the relay when the momentary switch (start button) is closed? Once the relay closes, then the circuit to the "starter wire" (which would be to the + side of the coil), would close and actuate the starter?

An array of analogue gauges and old type wiring is heavy and high as in C/G?
Digi dashes way naff all and can be low mounted if required, and thin wall wiring is very lightweight.;)

This ^^^^^ and another weight saving opportunity here also with an ultralight pro harness, these and the digi dash and thin wall wiring can save well over 3 kg. the budget steel harness fittings start to nag on you if your in the car for an hour or more, i seem to remember posting one that weighed in at 3.5 kg:eek:

Actually, one of the biggest arguments for a digital dash is not weight but information. You layout different "pages" on the dash and each one can report different info. It also saves time looking around at a dozen gauges for 15 seconds while you're on a straight.

As for belts, Alex is right, you want at least a 5-point, and preferably a cam lock. If you've ever put on a 4-point belt and cinched it up wrong, it'll creep up your stomach. Submarining under the belt is the same thing but happens much faster during an accident and the 5th point prevents that. I've also had to spend, probably hours now, explaining to passengers how a latch link belt works and how to put one on. It's worth the extra money for a cam lock to never go through that, coincidentally, I'm also switching to cam locks :)


As a rule of thumb, you can never be too safe. Consider this, a $600 seat, $300 belt, $900 fire suppression system, $800 fuel cell, $1200 roll cage, $1500 fire suit, $400 helmet, etc., seem like big purchases up front, but they can prevent tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills after an accident. So when you look at safety items, your foremost question should be, "How much am I worth?"


For the relay, most automotive relays will take 12v for the coil circuit. so the starter relay would look like this

T85: ground
T86: +12v from start button
T87: to starter
T30: +12v in

This is for 4 terminal relays, if there is a fifth one (87a), don't use it. Terminal 87a is a passthrough power until relay is activated then 87a goes to 0v and 87 goes to 12v.

So here's my thoughts on your questions...

Sparco Sprint - Sparco Sprint seats are a made with a steel tube-frame construction. While FIA certified, and safer then a non-certified seat, you should consider the use of the vehicle before buying them. If there is a significant chance of serious accident in the car (track racing, stage rally, etc.) then I would pass on the Sprints and find a composite construction seat. You want to avoid a situation where the seat frame could distort or break and injure it's occupant. In the case of rally-cross or autocross (where accidents which damage the passenger compartment are far less likely) a Sprint would be a fine choice.

4pt belts - Avoid these like plague. As already stated, it's pretty challenging to do these up properly without the buckle rising up into your abdomen. An accident (even minor) could cause you great internal damage. Go with 5pts or 6pts, and always run the submarine belt...even to the corner store.

Push Button Start - I would encourage you to consider why you want a push button start with the ignition key still in use. Keeping the stock ignition cylinder intact simplifies the wiring, and keeps the theft protection functional. Adding a push-button in addition to the key adds three additional points of failure (button, relay and wiring) any of which could disable your car mid-competition. I would suggest you either a) ditch the ignition switch entirely (I can give you wiring diagram) or b) forget the push button.

Digital Dash - Not really a question, but I figured I should jump in on the conversation. The biggest advantage to a programmable dash is that you program the display to only show information if there is a problem. It could show oil temp until it reaches operating temperature (for instance) and then never show oil temperature again unless it gets too high...then it should flash or otherwise attract the driver's attention. If someone is using traditional gauges, simply twist each gauge so "normal" operating condition is with the needle straight up and down. Your brain no longer needs to "read" gauges. You simply glance over for a millisecond and look back forward. Your brain processes whether or not all needles were "straight up", and only if they weren't do you need to take the time/brain power to look and read the problem gauge.

-Dave

Sorry for hijacking, but can you tell me please where the submarine belt should be attached (what is the best angle?)? Slots in the seat are required in this case?

Harness mounting is fairly specific, best to read the instructions that are for the actual belt you're installing. But for general information, the Schroth book is pretty good. Regardless, seats require a proper anti-submarine slot. It's very dangerous to use a seat that doesn't have a slot. https://www.tillett.co.uk/shop/docum...ation-2012.pdf

5pt belts are typically done with the anti-submarine strap following the chest-torso line and then mounted between that line dropped down to the floor, or 20deg forward.
http://www.schroth.com/installation-.../image_037.gif

6pt belts are either run through anti-submarine straps, through the side slots and you sit on the anti-submarine belts, or under a thin panel in the seat. The mounting point is quite specific to the belt you're using.

-Dave

Thanks for the info Dave!
One more, if there is no cage in the bug where would you mount the shoulder belts? The original fixing point behind the rear seat is too low?

If there is no cage in the bug, you shouldn't _ever_ run shoulder belts in a harness. Should the vehicle roll, a 4-5-6pt harness (done up properly), does not allow you to move the upper body and you are risking permanent spinal damage or death should the roof collapse. If you're not running a roll bar, I would suggest using just the lap and anti-submarine belts.

FWIW, a four point roll bar (like I have in my beetle), may not be enough for full harnesses either. I was denied entry into a particular event due to the risk of front portion of the roof crushing in an killing me in a roll-over. Technically my car met the rules, but the organizer reserves the right to exclude any vehicles they think are unfit, and mine was selected. Definitely made me think about putting in the front half of a cage as well...may still do so.

-Dave

A bit of excitement! Now I am ready for the soap box derby!! Just shove me down a hill!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8380/8...f53e5b39_c.jpg
Although no cooling vanes in the rotors, I will switch the left and right rotors so the slotting is going the other way in order to be consistent with the back.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8539/8...6ab4b4e5_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8531/8...ae708d19_c.jpg
Front clip isn't perfect but the front bumper and Kamei should hide it. The front was clearly in an accident at some point, and the fender bolt holes may need to be drilled out and welded back in. Maybe in the future I will replace the whole front clip.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8241/8...9b649f7f_c.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8395/8...d784a7d4_c.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8520/8...45ccb81c_c.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8401/8...8b177c1c_c.jpg


Watson StreetWorks wiring harness should arrive at the end of the week. My 944 CV's and axles are off for a little R&R, DTM cooling shroud will be coming sometime.

Anyone have an idea what these sensors are?

Oil Pressure????
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8522/8...40dffc60_c.jpg


Oil Temp????
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8386/8...2eb5773a_c.jpg

You are correct with the sensors. ;)

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...65438447_n.jpg

Am I doing something wrong? I got these struts to replace the springs on my hood from CIP1. They do not move a bit! I can't extend or compress them at all. Do they just take really high force to move them? Problem is, they are compressed too much so that I won't be able to attach them unless the hood is closed and how am I supposed to do that??

The other piece is already E-clipped into the car.

usually thoes gas struts are fully extended and they take quite the force to compress. so i dont know why they are compressed. maybe call them and see what might be the matter or maybe something your missing on how to install them.

I put all my weight on them to compress em, and no luck... They also seem too short to be extended.

I've had those that needed to unseat once to let them move, they don't look compressed to me, I think they just need to move once. Otherwise, that is just way too stiff, your hood will start to fall apart. Put the threaded end on some wood then get on top of that thing!

Jason

Just tried again... Maybe I'm not fat enough?

I've got gas struts on my hood, picked them up from a local supplier, not CIP
I can move them in and out my hand.
Sounds liked they are stuffed. Usual CIP quality?
Don't put them on mate or you will bend or crack your hood for sure.

I've recently replace the gas struts on my mum's polo boot (trunk) They were completely uncompressible by hand, however once fitted they worked perfectly.

As mentioned, sume have a 1/4 turn lock, I've seen that before too

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...82639630_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...93619938_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...02245789_n.jpg

I've come quite a way in the past few months!

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...36753251_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...03730318_n.jpg

Seems like the money is just pouring out of my wallet on this thing recently...

haha, yes the reassembly stage tends to do that!

Just wait until the finishing stages...the suction from your wallet becomes black-hole intensity :-)

Great progress though!

-Dave

Watson Wiring Harness has arrived... Installation pics coming soon. I may need to step away from the car this weekend, feeling a bit stressed out over it.

Gone Fishing, be back soon! ;) But seriously I'm going fishing.