Revving. That's the issue. I really don't want a car that requires a lot of revving to start to show some juice. And, as you say, revving to get power will increase wear, and therefore reduce reliability. That's why i decided to get a stroker. Plus i don't see much point on using 85.5 cylinders, being 90.5 just as reliable.

I understand your point, getting a smaller yet powerful engine. But that means less torque. And torquey engines are by far more fun to drive everyday.

On a final note, not only is the 2007 cheaper to build, but it still leaves room for some improvement in the future, like adding the turbo... If we went the 1600t route, the only thing we could do later (other than fine tuning or adding boost) would be increasing the displacement...
2007cc N/A --> 140hp (guesstimation)
2007 T ---> :eek:

I think I may build a small displacement motor (remember I was a jap car fan) so i like small displacement big power in a way :D Mostly because the guy thats going to help build my motor does not want to really build a hi po motor.He dont want to be the one put the blame on if something goes wrong with the motor, which I understand.:DHe's known my dad since before i existed on earth:laugh: :so hes trustworthy, hes like and uncle.
Im thinking either a 1600cc 85.5x69 forged, 87x69 (yes im very aware)
What would a 85.5x74 be? a 1699cc? :confused: With a turbo they dont got to rev extremely high to make power which is cool. I think turbo kicks in at 1800rpms with them.

Yes, that's the displacement. And i'd say that it all depends on how you set up the turbo. Lower boost and a wider power band seems the way to go.
BTW, i also had a b15 sentra before, but it was a GSX auto, no performance to squeeze from it. And vdubs are WAY cheaper to mod.
Only thing is that in Mexico no one respects them... but that makes for a perfect sleeper...

these cars get no respect, hardly from the local import guys here. whats funny is they compare there cars to mine which will be stock.they'll say like "oh my honda civic will kill your bug stock for stock, and even if your bug was built my stock honda would squash it like a bug" i get tired of them :laugh: im not a street or strip racer but if i gotta make a point i will.:D i'll just have fun doing it.

turbocharging your engine(1600 or 2007) is a bad idea if u seek drivability, first of all you'll suffer from fuel economy because i assume you will drawthru it, and if you blowthru it it will help the mpg a bit but your pocket will suffer then, but don't expect a large improvment in it even with blowthru...
second, you can kiss highway speed goodbye, that's about +70mph, and the only thing that could help this is to pick a bigger turbo, and then ofcourse you will suffer the lag at lower rpm range...
turbo is a tricky project to build, and recuires a lot of planning before buying the parts, or you'll end up frying your engine, but if you intend to run it on tracks only, then turbo is your best choise...

2007 is a good engine for street and track, and expect a lot of fun driving it, and you could even make some hondas smell your exhaust easily.
an ideal mild 2007 engine could make 125hp at the wheels while maintaining a great low end trq, and you could sqweez it up to 150hp but Sacrifice some of the low end...
i'm now changing my 1776 project for a torquey 2007, and still FI it, and will start building it as soon as i finish planning and saving some cash too(i'm a not a rich guy after all :bawling: )
good luck in your project, keep us updated...

But I thought turbochargin a t-1 motor increased fuel economy and performance. I read some guys get 20-30mpg but anyways I just want it for the performance factor.Although gas milage would be cool.I would go Draw through, with a carberator since I dont want to go through all the pita stuff you got to go through converting it over and all the pointless money spending since I dont think converting to EFI would increase hp.

I dont think efi would increase (at leastnot substantially) hp from a well tuned carb system. But it does help reliability as it has less moving parts that can fail, and it really improves mileage. Also it opnes a lot of possibilities for fine tuning.
Also if you have EFI & turbo, i don't see why would you suffer from drivability if properly set up. I do think you'll suffer if using carbs + turbo, but this may be negligible if the setup is perfect. I have read in both the samba, STF and VZi of people with small displacement turbo engines and love it... Im just looking for more torque.

it will increase the power, or at least the same power(but not less) more than a well tuned carb, i'm not talking about a huge gain in power, i'm talking about "healthy" increasment of power, in a FI setup you have the fine-tune ability and feedback feature, that you don't have in any carb setup, even if you are a master in carb tuning and rejetting.

sure, but in other hand it increase the longivity of your expensive engine, beacause you have cleaner mixture without being too lean nor too rich, and both ofcourse reduce the engine life, specialy lean running.
and also when you add ecu-controled ignition like edis, your engine could never be more happier :D .

if you have the ability and knowledge to install a well-built turbo setup, then go for it for sure, but you will have to blow-thru it if you want it to last and also if you don't want to add an extra fuel tank :cool: , blow it will make your tuning job easier and you will have the ability of controlling the ignition, and you know it's a must for turbo or you will have a pre-ignition problems, modifing or locking the advance in regular dist. will help, but again not like ecu controlled...
sorry for being a racist toward efi :rolleyes: , but when you decide and build it, you will see what i mean...

Michael

I agree with you 100%, that's why i said i'd only get a turbo engine IF i had EFI... Or even without the turbo, if it was affordable. There are LOTS of issues when thinking of a turbo+carb engine, as you point out.

I think we got lost at some point, or were you saying this to VeeDub?

yes, i was arguing with VeedDub about fuel economy, as he say turbo has more fuel economy potentials.
i was supporting your words, but i just added some other points to yours.
veedub,
i forgot to say, that your turbo will be fuel effecient, only when you are off-boost, i don't know why as i'm not an expert, but i'll assume that because your engine will not make any force to suck the intake mixture, but this will end as soon as you go on boost, so you will rarely see this happens.
a user in STF (i don't remember his name), built a 94x69 turbocharged engine megasquirted with EDIS. i remember that this guy fine-tuned his engine for ages and he did a great job finaly and do have a lot of experience about turbos, he was saying that his mpg was 22 only on combined driving(on-off boost), many users didn't see more with the same setup.
if you can live with this mpg, go turbo, you will be happy with the power, but at least FI it...

Michael

Yes, again I agree with you. However, I do think that you can get a decent MPG with and EFI & turbo engine, IF you are mild on boost, which also helps drivability. Do you remember how much boost did this guy have?

I got more info on the turbo idea. If I get everything forged, pistons,crank,I beams, rockers, I can run up to 15psi and be reliable. Talked to a guy thats had his kit running 15psi, and has had it for 5 years now with no major probs. Oh and hes making 140hp (138whp)

Yes but that makes the price go to sky. Cimas aren't forged, or so it seems. You are gonna spend some bucks on a forged 1600cc, and then a similar amount on the turbo.

yeah, come to find out his was a home made turbo kit.:rolleyes: He never mentioned that...

I talked to Darren from DRD on the volkstalk forum, I was telling him what I wanted, a daily driver with a twist, for the temptation of just wanting to nail it on the straight aways here :laugh: which everyone does thats my age anyways.
I was telling him Id like a 1641cc, and I knew about the pistons, not like I plan on overheating my car anyway:laugh:
He told me
87mm pistons forged
69mm c/w forged chromoly crank
118 Web Cam cam
Dual throat Webers 40mm
Merged header and Super Turbo Muffler (I added)
Stock heads ( but I dont want stock heads)
combo is good for around 90hp 130lbs torque.

Seems very well. I only say that you better get P&P heads, even if they're mild. And if you are going to spend in machining anyway, and you are also gonna get a new set of pistons/cylinders, why not go with 90.5's?

Well, 87mm pistons dont require machining and there less expensive.:D
Also for heads I was thinking of DRD's L3 heads,
specs on them
This style of head porting is for a street car/ off road car with a increase of approx 30% more than stock hp and flow.
Power output, depending on your combo, power ranges from 75HP to 125HP.
A full port and polish, small port, combustion chambers reshaped, intake manifolds matched, fly cut for
compression, comp valve job, springs shimmed to your cam and rockers, and flow bench tested.
This port combo retains bottom end torque, with excellent mid range and high end pull to 6500 rpms and increased
fuel mileage. For use on stock vw castings with stock intakes an stock exhaust valves.
Recommended mild cams shafts and mild lift .400 ~.450 numbers at the rockers.
DRD L3 porting labor per pair, includes Bead blast cleaning $275.00

And specs on the 118 Web Cam perf. cam
Valve lift .402"/ Dur of cam .283"/ Dur. at .050" .246"/
$87.00

Seems ok, but if they're slip-ins that means their cylinder walls are thinner. I'd stay with stock bore, or get at least machine-in's with stock wall width.
You don't want these to warp.

Does anyone on here know what the difference in hp and torque would be in a 90.5x69 (1776) and a 87x74(1760) just wondering.

HP would depend more on your heads, and i guess the stroker would be a bit torquier... just theory no first hand experience

ok I decided , Im going with a 1641cc with this motor, the other motor I found out it has a w100 cam, c/w crank, heads prob got something, 1.25:1 rockers, and the PO had a progressive on it, but he kept it, so Im goin to run a 34pic on it, since I got one already.The 1641cc with the combo I was told to go with, it will have about 95hp and 120lbs torque, which is what I want.

this is my motor combo.
It will be the 1641cc, found a better combo that wont kill my wallet as much...
87x69, 044 magnum 40x35.5 heads with cut 55cc chambers,bugpack cam .284 duration and .484" lift w/ 1.25:1 rockers, dual 40mm kadrons, merged 1.5" header w/ hideout muffler, and a full pertonix ignition.

Option #2 heads are 044 Super Magnum cnc round port heads, 40x35.5 valves, cnc porting, dual super rev springs, chromoly retainers, hardened valve locks, and 3 angle valve job - 605.95 per pair.

Any idea what the hp and torque might be?
Im guessing 100-110hp and 130lbs torque

hey guys, my dads friend was telling me that i can really wake up a stock 1600cc with mild bolt ons, and if I want, add a cam, motor needs rebuild anyway, and it going to be my backup motor and i just want it quicker than stock with enough balls to move out its own way.the motor thats in my car now is what i really want to build since its the one with most hp and torque stock out of the 2.

For the 1600cc I read in a past Hot VW magazine that they added bolt ons onto a 1600cc and it rand 17's, if i added heads and a cam and diff size carberators maybe it would be in the low 16's high 15's possibly?

Anyways depending if the pistons are still good would i want to reuse them or get new ones, same with the connecting rods,flywheel?
id use this kit http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails....10%2D5000%2DKT
would stock rods be ok, or i beam or h beams be and improvement, since there in the kit?
what cam followers would i want?
id go for the forged c/w 69mm crank with a W110 or W120 cam with a cam gear.
Then order dual 40 or 44mm kadrons, 1:25:1 rockers,merged header and muffler, and for heads...maybe cb's 044 heads

What you guys think, should i do that for my first motor build up then when its done and in my bug, take the current motor thats in the bug and build it into a bigger bore motor like a 1776cc?

Hi again.
I'd say to use the engine with the least wear for the Hi-po, and the other one should be the mild one. If you're staying 1600, and are ona budget, you can add the w110, stock rockers, and dual kads should be fine. If your pistons, crank and rods are in better then perfect condition, and you don't plan on racing, they should be fairly ok, since you should want to spend your cash on the larger engine. Merged headers are a must, and for a 1600 i'd stay away from 044, and go 043, DRD or steve tims, because of their higher port velocity on a small displacement engine. Lightening the stock flywheel should work too. Oh, and stay away from lube-a-lobes, i've read too many bad things from them
All this is under the assumption that:
1. you are gonna build an engine that's more fun than stock, but are not gonna race it
2. you are on a budget
3. in the near future, you'll be getting a better engine (and would rather spend your cash on it)


As for your second engine, well it all comes to budget and usage.

Cheers

oops i double posted..

Yup, you did. Nice engine in the other thread BTW. Great starting point, and already better than my engine....
BTW, it seems that i'm gonna do a 2180cc... but that's for another thread:D

I agree. ajs stuff is great. i had the rebushed throttle and did the air cleaner mod for dual k-duds, good stuff. Ive head everything out of there is quality. i'd considered the turbo on a 1600, but then I sold the bug, instead :( You can get some decent street heads as well form lowbugget.