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Wasn't sure when the waterpumpers started, don't they all have basically the same bolt pattern until then??
Jeff- |
Not to break up the tranny chat or anything :confused: but I did get the front end completely finished today, just alignment and shock/spring changes to be done. The steering shaft went just fine last night, that is until I got the U-joints installed.
I had a wump, wump, wump as I turned the wheel. I was pissed, because none of the angles are adjustable, they are all built in. My bug lives over at one of my rental houses, and the guy that lives there use to restore Mustangs. He's out there with me as the 3rd arm, and when this happens he suggests the U-joints have to be offset, that is, the center section can't look like a flat H, it one of the ends has to be turned 90 degrees to the other. It was getting late and I was frustrated, so I left it till today. He lent me his 3rd arm again, and I dismantled it and re-assembled it 90 degrees to the other U-joint. PRESTO FIXO! Its works like a champ! I'll get some pics tomorrow, I left my camera home today. Jason PS. I started this thread a while ago for obvious reasons: LazyLongboarder's Rear End |
Sorry we got off track :o .
I completely missed the obvious reason for the Porsche rearend topic?? other than to get Russell beat up in a parking lot :laugh: ! Jeff- |
I promised pics, and here they are:
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/247639.jpg http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/247641.jpg http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/247644.jpg It's pretty hard to see, but there is a black machined bushing between the U joint and the steering column. A friend of mine, Mike Humphreys, did the machining of this part, as well as the internal pushing that keeps the steering shaft centered in the steering column. http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/247647.jpg This will be the last I post on this topic for awhile, the next will be tuning it with the correct springs and shock adjustment, and the addition of a sway bar, but I'll get the whole thing running before I do that, so it may be awhile. Jason-whew! |
Without too much planning, I ended up in Fresno this weekend after a couple days spent at Laguna Seca with the Audi Club. It also just so happens that Bruce and his Eyeball Engineering is also located in Fresno, so I got a chance to snap some pics of one of Bruce's suspensions on a show car before it went to uphostery(sp?). This will be a very nice car, unfortuneatly for GL fans, it will be Cal Look/Hot Rod.
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/255627.jpg http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/255637.jpg http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/255643.jpg |
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What the $#@% are they waiting for to produce this!?!
Is this potentially what us beam front suspension people dreamt of? Get on the horn! Get those folks to make it for us. All those in favor? |
The lower A-arm pivots look like a tie rod end? The front one is on one axis and the rear one is on another?
Great detail, excellent pics! They should sell these. Jeff- |
All in favor..."I"
Where do i send the check? Seriously... |
BUMP
Lets not loose this thread. Hey volkdent do you know if this parts are readly avalible or where they a one time production. Can you give me some more info on Eyeball Engineering. |
Hey Alex,
The metal parts are all one-off. The bushing are standard Energy Suspension leaf spring bushings, the lower balljoints are stock Type I lowers, the uppers are Ford Galaxy, the spindles are stock Type I, the steering rack and tie rods are MkII Golf, one UV joint is MkII Golf one is Flaming River. Bruce is semi-retired and owns, runs, and lives at Eyeball Engineering. He has a website with his number on it. When I've tested and am really happy with mine, I might redesign it to be easier and less costly to build and then maybe people can buy kits or the entire assembly. Jason |
Jason, very impressive to say the least :righton: cant wait untill you do some testing and good luck.
since ive joined way back when ive been more of an onlooker but have to say the innovative minds on this site is a treasure to see. keep up the good work guys :D |
Jason,
What size inner diameter tubing did you use for the the where the bushing is inserted and bolted to the bulkhead? Also what bushings did you use? Thank, Mike |
I'm sure it sounded good coming out of your head, but I just don't know what your asking. Are you talking about the bushings on the A arms?
Jason |
Oops, I really sound like a retard when I don't proof read my posts. Yes I am talking about where the A arm mounts to the frame.
Mike |
The bushings are graphite impregnated polyurethane bushings designed for rear leaf springs for old American cars. The tubing is just machined to match the recommended ID OD for the bushings. If your getting serious about doing something, I can get the part number for them.
Jason |
I am getting close to the design phase of my car. I want to figure out what rims I am going to use before I begin with the suspension. I would appreciate it if you could tell me the part numbers for the bushings.
Thanks, Mike |
I'll be heading to the shop this weekend so I'll check them out then. I just hope I saved the boxes!
Jason |
Going to the shop for more progress pics I hope! :D
Jeff- |
I seriously havn't touched it in almost a month! Don't worry, once my brakes get back and the garage changaroo get's done, there'll be a flurry of pictured documented activity!
Jeff, as a side note, I'll probably be going to see my best friend in Nashville in Sept, are you in that neck of the woods? Jason |
I'm a couple of hours southwest, just outside of Memphis. My father-in-law lives in Nashville though, eastern side, I think around I-40 milemarker 221. When you get some final plans, let me know. If I'm off, we'll shoot up for the day and grab some beverages:haveadrin .
Jeff- |
Hey guys,
This weekend was a change of home for my bug. Walt, the Volksrodders guy, also the guy who built my front suspension, helped me out with his enclosed car trailer. He's such a great guy, I really appreciate him. Anyway, Mike, I found the wrappers for the PU bushings. They are Energy Suspension part #9-9107G, a 4 bar bushing set with 1-1/4" OD, 1/2" ID. Jeff, my buddy has an M3 that I'm sure could use a workout, so we can head your way too. I'd love to see your ride in person. Maybe GET a ride? Will you get that damn thing running again!!!!? Jason |
More than welcome to roll this way. Easy to find our place, not far off the interstate, lots of eateries close by. Just try to give a heads up on the day so I can arrange to be off.
If its not going by Sept, we have a pretty serious problem. :mad: This whole waiting on the M/C is driving me nuts, he's a very good friend trying to do me a favor but DANG! Jeff- |
Anymore progress?
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Sorry, no. Car has been sitting while life happens. Lanners brakes havn't even been installed yet! I will update if I make any progress, I promise.
Jason |
I hppe this doesn't seem like an overly obvious suggestion, but has anyone just cut the frame head off and welded on a subframe to carry a Mustang II front end? All complete in one package with steering and geometry all worked out?:o
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Might work! I hear these guys have a really good reputation for quality http://www.heidts.com/heip17.htm
Mike |
Not overly obvious LT. Jason's whole mission was to make it "bolt on" to any stock pan without having to hack-n-whack. He could have saved a ton of time and money doing it your way but he refuses to be sensible :D .
Have you seen the arse end of his car? ...but he doesn't want to cut the front :laugh: :p ! (Lets see how long it takes dent to rip me a new one...:cool: ) Jeff- |
How exactly would you get the mustang II front end to match up with the bug, or ghia front end?? Start hacking and welding it in I soppose, right? I just finished a beetle project, but i'm considering a ghia 'vert project that I want to start up. My MAIN goal is to make this ghia as highway-able as possible (Maintain speeds of 80+) and this sounds like something I may be able to throw into my blackboard of ideas and combinations of notions.
(Wonder if they can custom make the bolt pattern) |
As long as you don't mind hacking and have a very good grasp of suspension design, anything is possible. I don't remember if the Mustangs spindle steering arms are high or low. I used VW because they are high and clear the shifter tunnel.
Jason |
The mustang II has lower steer and I believe the steering arms are in front. The good part about the mustang setup is that you don't need to know much about steering design because it has been perfected in the setup. You just need to be good at fabricating and attaching the new suspension. I think most of the tunnel would be hacked away to make room for this proposed suspension.
Mike |
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Just making a front end is easy, making it bolt on with minor modifications, priceless... Jason |
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Jason |
FWIW The Mustang II front suspension isn't the best from a geometry perspective for optimized handling. Sure, it's an A-arm layout but was designed back in the 70's to do a decent job and be inexpensive to mass produce. It's a parallel unequal length layout that doesn't provide very good camber gain and lots of in/out scrub. OK for a hot-rod but not the best if you're wanting "sports car" handling. However, it's still relatively inexpensive with lots of aftermarket versions available - I'm fitting a version of it to my fiberglass body (tube chassis) buggy. I'm going to alter the geometry a little and with the limited suspension travel it shouldn't be too bad. Ideally, you'd lengthen the a-arms (from the stock geometry) and re-work the pick-up points but I don't have room in the buggy for longer arms. Also the spindles aren't really that ideal either, pick-up points require mounting the spindle high (relative to the chassis) - the axle is very low on the spindle. When you start really working the parts for improved geometry you eventually find you'd be better off just starting with a better spindle to start with and working in from there!
I've read ATS is (or will be at some point) coming out with an improved version of the M-II spindle, but that may be quite some time from now... On the plus side, it was designed to carry the weight of a V8 so the bearings and ball joints are quite a bit beefier than VW (but not "too massive") - great from a performance perspective. Also, with the Chassis Shop/Wilwood brakes the spindle/brake/hub package is significantly lighter than standard VW items even with a bigger rotor size! Built-in domestic bolt pattern comes with the package. Jeff |
My theory is this.
I'd love to build the perfect front end for a Beelte, but I don't have access to the maths to work it out. I'd love to bolt an optimised system straight to my frame head and 'drive away' but nobody make a commercially available system yet....? Even if I did design my own system, I understand that just one of the elements needs to be only slightly out to screw everything up so it would end up being dreadful anyway. The VW trailing arm is very poor anyway so it doesn't take much to improve on it. Whilst the MII system is by no means perfect, it is a pretty good effort and certainly a massive improvement on standard. It allows the easy fitment of big brakes, comes in attractive chrome finshes with many variable options and is complete as a unit including steering. If someone can come up with an easier, cheaper and more optimized bolt on system, let me know? On the basis that I'll be doing an IRS conversion, chopping a G50 trans into the pan, cutting off a frame head and fabricating mounts for an all in one front end shouln't be too difficult as long as it's correctly jigged and mounted? |
Sounds great. Just think about it LONG and HARD. There are soooo many variables to consider when it comes to adding suspension, especially if you want to limit cutting/welding. How will your steering column integrate into the new steering setup, will your tie rods have room to move, where will your rack sit, how will the angles end up, etc. Lots and lots of variables. It can definately be done and really, like you say, it shouldn't be that difficult. Mine had a lot of restrictions due to the parameter limits I set, but if you don't mind doing using American parts and doing some cutting, it really won't be too terrible. Keep in mind that the Mustang II suspension was designed for a car much wider than a bug, so roll center needs to be adjusted. Remember the results need to be worth the effort.
Jason |
Jason,
When you gonna pull the trigger on this Thailand option? I'd like to hear what sort of impact on pricing, the mass production will have. The killer is gonna be how many units you have to buy to get a decent deal. Be sure you get a pre production version to test before they do a full run... then send it to me so I can evaluate it :cool: . Jeff- |
PM sent.
Jason |
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