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-   -   Mythbuster: continuing project thread of my 1303 '75 (https://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9953)

effvee December 27th 2009 13:22

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...9.jpg~original

Very nice work Walter. Question, presently I have the 1985 944 rears for both front and rear. Do you feel fix caliper do a better job than floating calipers?

The reason for my question is due to, on my Chevy truck I have floating calipers and the right front wear every time faster and sticks. This is due in large part to the floating caliper design. However, over here fix calipers are hard to find. Unless I want to go to the Porsche junk yard and get rapped by sticker shock:eek:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...1.jpg~original

This is the front caliper on the rear, I feel I can't just use four wheel disk brakes from a 944/front engine, and not try and even out the braking. I have a old, I believe a 1970 911 book, in it, they use pretty much the same diameter calipers on front and rear. Leaving the larger caliper on the front, I feel would cause lock up too easy.

70Turbobug December 28th 2009 04:08

Quote:

Do you feel fix caliper do a better job than floating calipers?
A monoblock or fixed caliper is far better.It has more stability and more clamping pressure and resistance to heat.The resistance to heat without warping is the biggest advantage,because the caliper maintains braking pressure and doesn´t fade as much.

Wally December 28th 2009 08:50

Regarding the 944 MC: I did a lot of hard thinking why the rears gave so little brake force, even with the 23/19 cups.
My conclusion at the moment is that maybe, just maybe, with the brembo alu calipers, the travel is less than on a floating-caliper with a 53mm cup as the older 944's had. That would mean that the fronts already have full contact while the rears have not fully engaged because the rear 19mm cup just isn't pushed any further in the MC...
Its also means that you just can't use the MC cup sizes to 'adjust' your bias! The MC cup sizes are there only to level out the travel of the cups in the MC, so its equels both front and rear to give the same travel/force.
Hope this explaining of mine makes any sense.

A while ago I ordered a 20.6/20.6 MC from Mid america Motorworks and it said you could order even for the superbeetle's inclined flange! For just $39.95! but it was in backorder and would take 4 weeks... Yeah, I thought, so we'll never hear from them again..
Great was my surprise when it turned up at my doorstep exactly 4 weeks later! (today)
Made in China from EMPI in blister packaging! Figured :lmao:

While the pedals are out to fit a new gaspedal from CB with 'turbo' written on it (that will surely give 20 hp extra!) to replace my worn plastic and too deep lying old pedal, I will install this new MC while I am at it and let you all know what it does on the track next season. Then I can really say that I have tried everything ;-)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...ylinder001.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...ylinder002.jpg

70Turbobug December 28th 2009 09:13

Good luck! I´m always very skeptical about Empi parts to put it politely...

Wally December 28th 2009 10:01

Me too, Every Mistake Passes Inspection and all that, but.. there is no alternative for this part, so I kinda have to try it.
And it doesn't look that bad compared to a Varga unit that worked for me in the past as well.
It is heavy tho compared to the alu 944 unit.

And hey, there are only my brakes...what can possibly go wrong? LOL

oasis December 28th 2009 10:50

I hope I'm not intruding on the brake conversation but I am curious about ...
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...4.jpg~original
... the holes you drilled in your front spoiler. It is obvious you did it such that the air could travel through the holes as well as the slits in the front apron, but what do you have lurking behind that front apron needing air?

Wally December 28th 2009 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by oasis (Post 72988)
... the holes you drilled in your front spoiler. It is obvious you did it such that the air could travel through the holes as well as the slits in the front apron, but what do you have lurking behind that front apron needing air?

Just a relatively small mercedes (Behr) transmission cooler, which I use as an oil cooler.
Amazingly, it seems to be more than enough for this - and former - engine(s) ;)

Xellex December 28th 2009 13:59

that's something I was curious about, too. I've read somewhere in the past (probably on shoptalkforums) about your mercedes oil cooler, and it's obvious it's working good at speed, but is it enough at longer idle times? Actually the question is not aimed specifically at your setup, but all the other radiators w/o electrical fans on them. (and engines that don't have the stock oil cooler on too at the same time, just like yours).

Wally December 28th 2009 15:01

yes, longer idle running is fine because of the porsche fan, original heads. Even with the cast iron cylinders this worked fine, but very long idle time might give elevated oil temps (100-110C) in summer. This is no problem though as head temps are very low at idle as you have no load.

Steve C December 29th 2009 03:21

Hi

Sorry to jump in on your topic Wally.

Om my daily driver/sons 1303, running a mild 1904 Ive fitted a cooler in the nose like Wally has done, Im not running an internal cooler and the car will easily cope with bumper to bumper city traffic without any dramas. I do have a fan on it but it rarely comes on.

Steve

http://www.clubvw.org.au/images/dc1.jpg

70Turbobug December 29th 2009 04:50

I can also really recommend Mercedes oil coolers.If any of you have the chance of getting one i.e. off of a diesel Mercedes like the older 200D,220D,240D,300D or 300TD buy it.Imho they are one of the best coolers ever built.

oasis December 29th 2009 09:31

Great info. Glad I asked.

owdlvr December 29th 2009 14:23

Quote:

Regarding the 944 MC: I did a lot of hard thinking why the rears gave so little brake force, even with the 23/19 cups.
My conclusion at the moment is that maybe, just maybe, with the brembo alu calipers, the travel is less than on a floating-caliper with a 53mm cup as the older 944's had. That would mean that the fronts already have full contact while the rears have not fully engaged because the rear 19mm cup just isn't pushed any further in the MC...
Its also means that you just can't use the MC cup sizes to 'adjust' your bias! The MC cup sizes are there only to level out the travel of the cups in the MC, so its equels both front and rear to give the same travel/force.
Hope this explaining of mine makes any sense.
Wally,

Do you have a proportioning valve installed? I've got one on my rally car, for solving different issues, but it strikes me that it would be appropriate for solving your brake issues. Mind you, you're also at a stage where a full dual-master/balancing bar would be appropriate as well!

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1192/...6d89cd63_b.jpg

I put a lever-style prop-valve in the rally car, though you would probably find a rotating knob style (Wilwood) would suit you fine. I suspect you'll balance out the brakes the way you want them and then leave it, as opposed to the rally car which gets changed as the road conditions change. I've done the rotating knob style mounted outside of the passenger compartment in other vehicles, as they aren't adjusted 'once set'. In your case I would think you'd need to install it on your front lines, as opposed to the rear which is typically the case.

-Dave

Wally December 29th 2009 14:45

Hi Dave,

I have exactly that one in your pic ;)
But, its indeed connected to the rear and because the rear still doesn't brake enough, not much use of it. It just look slike it doesnt work in my car at the moment and I think I know wh now (see above).. I don't like installing these on the front as we already run without powerbrakes and it would just be a bandaid imo.

A dual master balancing bar would mean installing a complete pedal assembly and I have never seen one installed in a bug that I like.

It is sooo simple really: I just need to find a set-up that overbrakes the rear a little so I can adjust with the 7-step Tilton... How hard can it be right?...:o

Wally January 2nd 2010 13:06

So today I have engaged into removing some rubber from the rear banana-arms and spring plates so it can be replaced with monoballs, poly-bronze bushings and the occasional black graphite-urethane:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...rubbers014.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...rubbers012.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...rubbers025.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...rubbers016.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...rubbers019.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...rubbers021.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...rubbers023.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...rubbers026.jpg

Humble January 2nd 2010 15:15

ugh, I remember doing that job and it was no fun. I cut off as much rubber as I could from the spring plates then used a wire wheel for the rest. It took a whil but got the job done.

dub_crazee January 2nd 2010 15:34

thats absolutely hilarious - i did exactly the same today as im getting my stuff blasted and powder coated lol! new bearings and bushes throughout

ive been searching for the large 'doghnut' bushes for the spring plates but cant seem to find them - are the only replacements avaiable the poly bronze ones from the likes of elephant racing ?(

ricola January 2nd 2010 15:59

I got some from pelican parts for my speedster. I think Wally did it the right way for internal bushes, but like humble the wire wheel is MUCH faster for the outer ones...

dub_crazee January 2nd 2010 16:03

pelican parts was the first place i checked - maybe i was being blind! il check again.

i burnt the bushes off but i still need to get the remaining bits off - good idea with the wire wheel :)

Wally January 2nd 2010 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by dub_crazee (Post 73099)
ive been searching for the large 'doghnut' bushes for the spring plates but cant seem to find them - are the only replacements avaiable the poly bronze ones from the likes of elephant racing ?(

You can get pure urethane for most of it, but I read up on rubber, urethane, delrin, monoball and polybronze in the 944 world. Very interesting and hence my choices for replacements. Only inner busings from 944 don't fit the IRS beam, but other than that, most 944 stuff applies. Noise, quality, costs, pick your poison ;)

ricola January 3rd 2010 06:41

These ones?
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...78%20-%2095%29

dub_crazee January 3rd 2010 07:21

now i feel like a right fool haha i clicked on suspension bushings but not the next page - thanks mate

kuleinc January 4th 2010 15:43

I was looking forward to replacing all the rubber in the rear suspension, I take it the diagonal torsion bar thingy rubber replacement is a PITA then?

Wally January 13th 2010 14:57

In the meantime, the Heigo rollcage came in and I test fitted it today:
It really fits nice and is very close (good) to roof and the A- and B-pillars.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...igokooi005.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...igokooi009.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...igokooi010.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...igokooi011.jpg

volkdent January 13th 2010 15:47

OK, I REALLY like that fit, do a have a shot of the distance to the roof? Is there a US distributor for HEIGO?

Jason

Wally January 13th 2010 16:04

Yeah, here it is, but dificult to see because of the very contrasting white headliner and flash...In reality its snug against the headliner. I had to specify steel sunroof or not. Its that critical. Piece of german 'kwalität' ;)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...3.jpg~original

Sandeep January 13th 2010 16:50

That cage looks fantastic Walter, superb fit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by volkdent (Post 73351)
Is there a US distributor for HEIGO?

Check out http://www.fvd.us

I think I found a Canadian distrubutor as well :D

Sandeep

Wally January 13th 2010 17:19

The weight wasn't too bad either: the package was heavy as fock but the certificate showed it was 'just' 35kg's while I expected like 50 or 60 kg.

I think I'll just add one bar behind my head to mount the drivers side harness onto.

Jim January 13th 2010 18:26

This is very nice and safe addition in your car wally, it will be more stiffer now in the corners!

... and as i see from the photos it needs a little triming in the dash in order to fits nicely!

Rgrds,
Jim

wrenchnride247 January 13th 2010 22:36

That is one sweet cage Wally. Very, Very nice!

Wally January 14th 2010 03:49

Tnx Jim.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim (Post 73361)
... and as i see from the photos it needs a little triming in the dash in order to fits nicely!

Yeah, don't remind me... No gains without pains right? The fresh air supply will have to be rerouted some way as well...

Jim January 14th 2010 04:13

Indeed......without pain there is no gain!!

This is a picture of a friend of mine and his project and how it looks like after the surgery....it might helps you!

http://www.bugaru.gr/wp-content/uplo.../bugaru_63.jpg

Wally January 14th 2010 04:20

That is way too nice! :o

oasis January 15th 2010 03:38

As one who had asked about cages a while ago, this is great additional info for me. Very nice! Thanks.

Wally January 15th 2010 16:58

Received the uniball bushings and the polybronze ones today :D

They fit VERY nicely and precise!

I think I will try to fit the inside polybronze bushes as well as the inner circle of the 944 and bug torsion tube housing look to be the same.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...3.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...5.jpg~original

ricola January 15th 2010 18:00

Nice, I'll be interested to hear how you get on with them!

wrenchnride247 January 15th 2010 22:59

I'm officially jealous :rockon:

ricola January 16th 2010 07:13

Just a thought, will these inner uniballs work without mods on a bug chassis? I know the inner bushes are normally different but can't remember how exactly...

Also, what overall spring rate do you have at the back and how do you find it? I'm trying to work out roughly what springs to get for some coilovers in addition to the stock torsion bar...

Xellex January 16th 2010 10:30

also, it looks like the hole through the trailing arm bushes is too small. Are you using the stock beetle bolt, or the porsche (thinner) one?

Wally January 16th 2010 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricola (Post 73474)
Just a thought, will these inner uniballs work without mods on a bug chassis? I know the inner bushes are normally different but can't remember how exactly...

Nobody tried that afaik...I noticed the outer diameter is (about?) the same. Difference is ONLY that the bug's torsion tube had 4 indentations (sp?), but I guesstimate that these urethane outer parts don't really need a 360 degree contact path to seat against... Only one way to try it right?
I had also ordered a set of bug IRS black urethane grommets, but Topline was out of stock at the moment and I want the arms back in... so I'll try the 944 parts first I think.
Quote:

Also, what overall spring rate do you have at the back and how do you find it? I'm trying to work out roughly what springs to get for some coilovers in addition to the stock torsion bar...
Your quest/questions are the same as I have Richard...
All I know is the former 23.5mm bars were too soft for my heavy tranny/engine/intercooler/turbo and all that, so the logical next step was 25.5mm.
There is no more science to it than that ;)

Test and try, test and try.. Its a bitch, but someone has got to do it :lmao:


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