positive camber problems
 

i have a problem with excesive positive camber on the front of my bj beetle ,
i have a puma beam at stock settings and dropped spindles , one side has camber of 0 and the other side has camber of +0.5 degree's i have fitted extra camber adjusters and this is the best i can get any ideas on how to get more -ve camber ,or has anybody els suffered with a similar problem , any input would be appreciated
cheers jon

Same answer here as I posted on VZi: :agree: ;)

Hi

Local racers looking for extra neg camber have their upper arms bent.

Steve

i recently found out my car has a similar problem with similar parts. new adjustable beam, new CB dropped spindles, extra eccentric adjusters and the left side only adjusts to 0 camber. The right goes to -1.2 degrees. left has as similar range of movement as right, but only adjusts in +camber. i can only guess that the control arms (new) are bent on the left side. i've got a pair of new arms for the left on order from aircooled.net to see if that fixes it. :confused:

bill i think this may be a problem with the spindles as i have only changed them from standard and experienced this problem,before i fitted them it was fine, i was thinking about either ,shaving 2-3 mm of each bush on the top tube of the beam shortening the torsion leaves and re drilling them ,this should just give me enough -ve adjustment what do you think ?

The guy who did the alignment thought it might be the spindle also. I don't expect CB Perf spindles to be wrong. What spindles to you have? Did you remove the control arms during the swap?

I had my control arms off and was wondering if somehow I didn't get the left side seated correctly. I'll check that before I remove them.

As far as your idea for modification, I don't know if that would work. Bending the arms does for sure, but it's tricky from what i've read.

The arms did not come off when i did the spindle upgrade , i don't think it is a fault with the spindle machining, i think it is the actual design ,mine are cb spindles also the spindle back plate is alot thicker so it may be that the top bj position has been moved outover to give room for the compensator nut giving the positive camber,without taking them off to compare i don't know for sure, iwas thinking of moving the arms in by turning down the urathane bushes in the end of the arms ,i don't have the equipment to bend the arms and am not sure what it will do to the geometry if they get slightly twisted etc when bent ,just out of interest how would you bend the arms?

Hi

Thing that determines where your arms sit in the beam is the dimple that the grub screw sits in, so turning down the bushes will have no affect.

Steve

...with a BIG press and skill/experience (I don't have either...)

If one side is excessive positive and the other is excessive negative, then it could be that the torsion springs are not centered and the center grub screw needs to be moved. That doesn't sound like your problem, but note worthy.

It could be tough relocating the end grub screws pockets in the torsion springs like you suggest -- material and configuration...

I'm going to call CB about my situation and see what they have to offer.

Bill

after i turned down the bushes i was going to turn the torsion leaves over 180 degree's re center them and shorten if needed and then redimple them :D to move the arms in , i have the machines to do this at work ,before i do all of this i am going to measure everything and see if i can come up with another solution , may just recenter the leaves as 0.25 degrees on both sides unloaded may be alright as they go more negative as they are loaded will update you with the outcome of my findings
jon

Hi

Turning the leaves over could cause them to snap because of the different twit direction. Maybe you could bore the stock holes slighly deeper in the correct direction or maybe there is slight difference between your top & bottom leaves grub screw position?

Steve

FWIW, CB says they have never seen a bad spindle cause this issue and suggested to check the control arm for bend, the ball joint orientation within the control arm (notch lined up), or swap the eccentric. It doesn't take much...

Even though my beam is "new" it doesn't mean the arms are. They could be remanufactured and not be straight.

well it has been raining today so not much got done ,steve i had a look and the first thing i am going to do is to turn the leaves left to right on the top to see if this makes a difference, if that fails to make a difference then may have to look at a more radical solution , bill i would be interested in the outcome of measuring the old and new arms against each other ,to bend one of the arms would take quite an impact i would of thought, has your beam got urethane bushes or bearings in it , anyway one way or the other i am sure we will sort it
cheers jon

well i had the bottom leaves out today and measured everything up ,the dimples were an equel distance from the ends of the leaves ,the beam adjuster was off center ,all the arms were a snug fit in the bushes possibly 1 mm movement ,measured the top and bottom torsion tubes and found the problem :mad: when the tubes have been welded on or narrowed in the past the top tube has been welded offset to the LHS by about 4mm, so pulling one side in at the top and the other side out at the top , this is i suspect an aftermarket mexican-brazilian beam ,utter s*** :mad:
i am going to take the beam off tommorow and take it to work with me ,remove the top bushes and remove the offending 4mm on the LHS replace the bushes and redimple the torsion leaves hopefully this will give me 0-to -0.5 -ve camber on both sides , time will tell :D

Hi

That's great, it looks like you got to root of the problem.

Steve

I've been chasing the same issue for two weeks -- and just now found this thread. :mad:

I've got a BJ Beetle with new CB 2.5" narrowed beam and drop spindles. The RHS is +/-0 degrees with the stock eccentric bushing set to neutral and the best I can get on the LHS is +2 degrees with the eccentric fully cranked. I can get to +1 degrees on the LHS with an aftermarket eccentric, but want -1.5 degrees. The springs pocket grub screw locations are correct (sides to center). Looks like I need to double-check the beam... :confused:

i would reccommend bending the arm the other way is alot of work

I pulled the beam apart to check the upper and lower tube alignment. They were equal. I replaced the spring stacks with a new set from CB (the old ones were a set I had cut down), put the beam back together, installed the spindles -- same issue. It has to be the spindle... :mad:

Speedy and Bill K -- It's been over a year since you posted on this topic. What did you guys end up doing to correct the problem??

Mike, there is no easy answer , i tackled the beam and added camber buy extending the bottom tube but this is difficult .Many people have said to bend the top arms in with a hydralic press 10mm will correct it but it is weather you can find anybody to perform this .
I have read that people have heated the top arms to bend them and have had no problems but i personnally wouldn't heat them .
If i was to do it again i think i would have the bottom beam rubber bushes made out of ptfe( hard self lubricating plastic )that is often used in bushings and extended 10mm further out , a cheap fix as they are not difficut to make in a machine shop and cut down an old set of springs and redimple them 10mm further out .
I must stress i have not done this but would if i needed to change the camber again rather than tackle the beam.
hope this helps
jon

My untested solution was to buy replacement upper and lower arms. When I get around to installation, I'll report on results. But don't hold your breathe...

Thanks guys. I double-checked (and triple-checked) the alignment of the beam tubes, spring stacks and grub screw locations. All are correct. I pulled the CB drop spindle and installed a stock spindle -- and the positive camber issue is still present. Keep in mind that the RHS is okay. The only thing left is to replace the LHS upper and lower control arms. I'll let you know...