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Boy, I didn't know what to call this thread. I'm not even sure if this should be here, in "Brakes" or in "Tires." I guess my biggest questions are suspension related, so here goes ...

I have a stock 1971 1302 (pictures forthcoming if the weather ever improves). I want disc brakes. I want to use the BBS RX-II wheels which they make for VW's Golf, Jetta and New Beetle. That means I want a 5x100 bolt pattern. I know there are European options and I know I will eventually buy European in other aftermarket areas, but I want to stay on the home soil for this much of it.

I prefer to avoid Porsche items. I really don't know why I feel this way. I guess I want to build a Super Beetle the way Volkswagen should have -- in my view, of course -- and would have if production continued to 2004.

The wheels (still unpurchased) are 16x6½ et42. Jon at Topline thinks I should go with:
- their Sports+ springs,
- the smallest tire I can find for the front (whatever size that might be),
- the tire closest to 25" in diameter regardless of width for the rear (whatever size that might be),
- oil-type shocks for the front,
- gas-type shocks for the rear (mine actually already has these),
- their 7/8" front sway bar, and
- their urethane kit for the front.
He believes no further modifications would be necessary and this would lower the car by roughly an inch. (I assume the inch refers to the front.)

Reviewing the Topline site, I also noticed MaXX struts and Adjust-A-Struts. The minimum amount of lowering with the MaXX is 2.5". The picture of their green 1302 sure looks nice but I've seen two posts alluding to the rough ride becoming an acquired taste. While the AASs can also lower the 1302 to 5", it has a minimum of 1.5".

As I am typing, I am remebering some solid advice about doing things as incremental as possible. So, I will probably go ahead with Topline's suggestions unless others pose other possibilities.

At the same time I am curious what people think of the MaXX and AAS options from personal experience if I should want a more aggressive stance. Would I have to make any changes or additions if I choose one or the other later down the road. I know Kerscher enjoys a solid reputation as well but it seems through my search patterns that no one has experienced both to give a compare and contrast.

Any and all last moment input is greatly appreciated.

My 1302 is currently running Maxx's and you are correct, it is a aquired taste for feeling every bump in the road, but they work good in the corners. Before the Maxx's I ran AAS's wit oil cartriges, and they worked good as well. I have zero experience with sport+ springs but if you use them with AAS you'll be 2.5" minimum lower in the front.
Are you considering disc's in the rear as well? Most of the modern sportier cars have discs on all 4 corners.
Sounds like John is pointing you in the right direction, you might want to invest in a new idler arm bushing as well, I used the fancy bronze one(should last longer then the rubber one). It will feel like a new car.

While perhaps unnecessary, I have decided I'd feel better with four-wheel discs -- especially all coming from the same source. I will also present your suggestion about the idler arm bushings to Jon.

I'm curious, though. Why did you swap out the AASs for the MaXX struts?

I'm running the MaxxStruts too and I like them. They give you a little more room in the front for wide wheel/tires. I have them at the first drop setting and it is just right for my car. :agree:

NO H2O, are you running 17s like the display 1302 at Topline? Did you go from stock to Maxx, or did you have other mods along the way first? Are some roads a bit jarring to drive?

NO H2O and Supa Ninja, are your rears ... you know, each of your car's rear -- lowered? If so, how and by how much?

I'm running 16x6 C2's with 205/55/16 rear and 195/50/16 in front. The ride is firm in the corners but it dosn't beat you to death all day so you can drive it without a kidney belt. I think the MaxxStrut uses a Rabbit strut cartrige that you can upgrade later if you want. My rear is lowered a little but still clears my Phat boy muffler, well most of the time it clears. :laugh:
Mine is a 72 1302.

When I put this car together I went strait to the MaxxStrut. I talked to John at TopLine and figured I would end up with them anyway so why waste money on the way.

I ran the AAS's with stock springs on the lowest setting and I when I would bounce on the front bumper, the bottom of the Super would bounce off the ground. The stock springs were too soft for my driving style. I am going to go to 944 brakes with Cup wheels so I needed the room. I like the stiffer springrate and less upsprung weight of the Maxx Struts. The rear I lowered I think one outside notch and adjustable springplates. Right now there is no fenderwell gap with a set of empi 8's 175/55R15's and 195/50R15's. I don't know what the measurements are but it's damn low.

Nick

If you are gonna redo the suspension, you might as well get the maxx's. They have everything their other products offer and more. It leaves a lot of options open. I have them on my 72 super as well. I have 17's with 205/40 tires. The car is lowered 2 inches. You can sort of see in my avatar.
I went from a stock suspension straight to maxx struts. At the same time I replaced the many worn components up front. The ride felt a lot tighter, more responsive and the handling improved tremendously. :agree:

Oasis, try the v-dub customs guys if you want to run 1.8t VW disc brakes in the front. They are in Canada so the exchange rate is a plus. Check the links on the front page for their website.
Mark

i didnt really like the maxxs, they were too stiff for my taste.
if i ever get another super i'll bite the bullet and get the kerscher adjustable
struts. they use an eibach progressive rate spring vs single rate in maxx strut and they use a koni adjustable insert. so not only can you dial in your ride height exactly to the fraction of an inch, but you can also adjust the damper too.

Actually, I did check their site today as luck would have it. I liked a lot of what I read but a couple things concerned me. Firstly, it sounds like it is front discs only. I'm sort of wed to the idea of four-wheel discs. They do say they do custom work, however.

Secondly, they say, "Note: Since this kit gives a 5-100mm bolt pattern, you must check that your rims will clear the caliper (inquire with the wheel manufacturer using a 99 and later 1.8T golf application)." I would assume the wheels I want to use would work since they are BBS wheels made for a Golf IV, Jetta IV, and New Beetle. But, I hate assuming.

Lastly, I would want to know what works suspension-wise and tire-wise with this set-up and the wheels I love. I understand I may be tinkering a bit down the road, like it or not. Not. But I don't want to start with a combo that doesn't even work.


Wow, I didn't realize that. That does sound like a big plus. I know I've seen ads in VolksWorld, but who would you get this set-up from? And what brakes and tires in combination would you suggest given my mioptic view of wheels. (Did I mention they were 16x6.5 et42 BBS wheels for VW? Yeah, about a million times, thanks.)

you can order them from Kerscher, CSP (Germany) and Machine 7 (UK)

Once you get a setup like the Maxxs or the Kerschers you can use pretty much any wheel you want. You will just have to figure out what brakes you want to use. If I had my heart set on using VW Brakes, I would go with the V Dub Customs kit.

I have to disagree with Joe on the ride of the MaxxStuts. Once you lower the front and fill the fenders full of wheel and rubber, you only have 2 inches or less of travel left before you have rubber to fender contact. Couple that with the 17 inch 40 series tires that he was running and the ride will be stiff on either strut. I think the maxxStrut manages the small amount of travel very well. I am running a 50 series 16 inch tire and have driven the car on several long trips and lots of in town driving and have no complaints with the ride. It's no Lincolin Town Car but that isn't what we are after either. You could put 40 series tires on a Lincolin Town car and it will ride like a lumber wagon. If I were building a track car I would spring for the Kerschers just for the adjustability, but for a street car that handles well, I like the MaxxStruts. John has done a great job with them. I think that most people that have them or have tried them will tell you the same thing.

I just think that John used to stiff a spring for them seeing as they are only a single rate. they should have been a little softer (not too soft though), or like Dave said they would bottom out or rub tires.

I feel as though I am chasing my metaphoric tail ... which I thought would end once I finally purchased a car. One person's "too stiff" may equal another's "just right." Nevertheless, this is exactly the spirited, yet constructive, responses I was hoping to get to help me make my decision. I just wish I could drive or ride in a modified Super to get another personal point-of-reference besides stock (from when buying).

Some random responses and queries ... I am waiting for an e-mail response from VDubCustoms. The VW 5-100 bolt pattern is what I'm wed to more than VW brakes, but that intrigues me. It's not clear from their site if they can/will do rear discs and if so, whether I would have use of the hand brake.

I may call them on Monday if I haven't yet received a response. (Some companies, local and otherwise, suck at responding.) Later today, I will try to find Kerscher's and CSP's Web sites. Seems to me I've been at both before. I will call Machine 7 on Monday as well.

Do brake kits need other ancillary items? ... like hoses, discs, master cylinders, etc.? I have never asked before but VDubCustoms say what's not included and it makes me wonder that I'm supposed to assume something I'm not savvy enough to assume.

Okay, Kerscher uses Eibach and Koni as mentioned by vujade. What's stopping me from going to a local shop and getting those individually (plus whatever else I need)?

And since this has developed into a Kerscher-MaXX compare-and-contrast-fest, how much more of a bullet would I be biting if I go Kerscher? (I realize this is most likely a ballpark figure if anyone knows.)

Thanks for all of the responses so far, and upcoming. Whatever I end up with is what I will live with until the project reaches its conceptual end. Then and only then will I go back and tinker as I will be in the tinkering stage anyway.

Buying the right car is only the begining, roll your sleeves up cause the real work is going to begin.

the kerschers are gonna run you close to $700 vs $450 for the Maxxs

No one realizes, or has posted, that the choice of wheels and tires has a lot to do with the ride quality. The MaXX springs are just 10% over the stock rate, those 40 series tires on wide 17" wheels contribute a lot to the ride.

I kind of thought that might be the case. That's part of the reason I like the BBS wheels I'm kind of wedded to. They're modern, lightweight and being 16s, I will still have some sidewall as a cushion.

One helpful chap suggested 205/45s on the front and 225/50s on the back. At that suggestion, there will be some harshness. Some harshness was expected as a trade-off for superior handling but I am not trying to push the superior handling envelope.

I'm afraid I don't know what "10% over the stock rate" means. Is there some non-subjective measuring tool when it comes to springs and struts?

And let me ask another basic question. What are the functional differences between springs and struts? I never really gave it a thought before.

I don't know about that 10% either. I just know with adjust a drops and stock springs when i bounced on my bumper(i'm only 170 lbs) the control arms bounced off the ground. With the Maxx's i'm lucky to get 1/2" of movement. Ride-wise a lil on the stiff side but do able for a street car, and they more then make up for the lil dicomfort in the twisties.

Nick