944 brakes on a swing axle
 

hello, i been searching a few forums and i can not find info on this. please help. i have a swing axle trany, long axle, short spline and i want to run 944 brakes if possible. please tell me what exact car and year i need to get these brakes off of and how do i install them, and what kind of machining would be needed. any help would be great.
thanks

Contact Lanner at this website: http://www.vdubengineering.com/

His is the best site and has a ton of information. He is also a great guy to work with.:D

Just do your research first...;)

Kelly

great site but i didnt find the info im after. thats why im here, im doing some research. if you have any info on this please let me know, i know for a fact theres a bunch of other people wanting to know this also. if anyone has done this conversion please let me know what it takes to get 944 disc brakes on a long axle short spline swing axle. what year 944 would i need to get the brake parts off? and is there any machining required? any pros and cons to this set up?
thanks

You need the rear backing plates from a 924S. They are steel and basically replace the drum backing plate. You re-use the bearing retainer from the VW setup. It is recommened that you drill a hole in the 924S backingplate to give the oil a place to drain (like the drum backingplate has). Then you can use either 924S or early (83-85) 944 rear hubs. If you have short axle, chop 16mm off the front of the Porsche hub. Use all the early 944/924S ebrake parts and add rotor/caliper and you're done!

Or, talk to MBT. They make the backingplate specifically for swingaxle cars.

Lanner

Thanks Lanner,

Knew you would show up to help!!!:D

Are you planning on comming to Bug Jam this Nov?

Might see you there...

Cohibra45 (Kelly)

flat/lanner thank you very much for the info. but now im kinda confused, i called a vw shop a few days ago, i told them i found a NA 86 944 and i was taking the rear brakes off, they told me to send them the backing plates and hubs to get some machine work done and they would bolt on...... any idea what they need to machine? im jus trying to find the simplest way to do this without having to find 2 different cars to get brake parts from. oh and who is MTB?
thanks for the help
this is actually for a 65 bus with a 67 bug swing axle trany (long axle. short spline)

any idea? and whos mbt?

VW62RAG,

Here is the link for MBT.

http://www.mbt-engineering.de/

Take care,

Kelly (Cohibra45)

IF you can get your hands on a 924S, then you have all the parts required for a NA conversion.

The 86 arms may or may not the the aluminum ones. I think the 944's switched from steel to alum rear arms in early 86.

Maybe, still trying to sneak it in. I'm on the fence....

Here are pics of the elusive 924 part. It's from a 924, with the 5-bolt brake option (standard 924's were 4 bolt drums in the back). It is NOT from the 924S (which has aluminum trailing arms) They are getting hard to find, so MBT may be the only option. Anybody know how much the MBT pieces are?

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/395277.jpg
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/395278.jpg

Hi

Are they made from steel?

Steve

MbT steel backing plates
 

Yeah ,
When I got a hold of Uwe he quoted me 450euro for a refurbished pair sandblasted and electroplated. No mention of new ones. :cool: Although it sure looks like they make em.
Looks good! But spendy!

there has to be another way thats easyer, this shop told me to get the complete set of rear brakes off a 84ish 944 and they would machine them to fit for like 150 bucks. does any one know this method?

Not too sure about this method. You could use a 944 aluminum backing plate, and you will need a spacer to capture the bearing properly, BUT then you only have a oil seal to rely on to prevent oil from leaking. By using the 924 ones, you use the stock beetle bearing caps and you have a oil seal AND slinger to prevent oil leaks. I'll try to see if it's possible to machine a 944 aluminum one for a swingaxle setup....

Yeah, the 924 ones are steel and the bearing cap is seperate (2 piece). The 944 ones are aluminum and the bearing cap is part of the backingplate (1 piece).

Thanks Lanner

ok so i did a little more searching and found these, i havent emailed the guy yet but i will.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/alb...p?pic_id=72883
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/alb...p?pic_id=72884
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/alb...p?pic_id=72885
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/alb...p?pic_id=72886
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/alb...p?pic_id=72888
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/alb...p?pic_id=72890
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/alb...p?pic_id=72893

The pics there are for 944 aluminum backing plates that have been machined to retain the shortaxle bearing. My concern with that is that the 944 backing plates have a grease seal on them that was designed to retain grease. When you put them on a swingaxle car, the oil leaks a little. The advantage of the 924T ones is that you can use youe swingaxle bearing cap, with the oil slinger. Anyone out there use modified 944 ones on a swingaxle? Any issues with oil seepage?

Lanner

looks to me like the oil seal from a bearing cap will fit right in to that 944 modified backing plate, i dont see the problem? can you post a picture of the oil slinger your talking about please?

i only run the 61 - 66 one. thats the one i need.

vw62rag,

Yeah, I was talking about the oil slinger on the long-axle long spline setup (1968 bug and all year T3's). I've always recommended the 924 parts, but now that they are getting harder to find, I will look into using a modifed 944 backing plate.

Thanks for posting the pics, and keep us all up-to-date on the progress.

Lanner

is this the oil slinger your talkin about?
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/251778.jpg

I tried going that route with the aluminum backing plates at first......trust me it doesn't work. I seeped gearbox oil everywhere after one run down the highway and the gear oil got warm and thin. It was a huge mess.

As stated - it's worth the time and effort to haunt the salvage yards etc. to find the correct backing plates. Do it right once and you'll be much happier.

http://www.geocities.com/danielzink/944re4.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/danielzink/944ri.jpg



Dan

i dont understand? why and were would it leak from? i mean you put the same oil seal in the aluminum backing plate as the bug end cap? please explain

Okay..........


here's what it looked like with the aluminum backing plates:

http://www.geocities.com/danielzink/944rj.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/danielzink/944rf.jpg


Please note how deep the splines go in relation to where the slinger will sit and the "lip" on the blue seal......That's your problem...

http://www.geocities.com/danielzink/944rm.jpg

Here's a pic with the slinger on.....I could just push the slinger on and past the blue seal with no problem...it's not a correct fit. That's where it leaks...and it leaks like a sieve.

http://www.geocities.com/danielzink/944ro.jpg


Now notice how everything works when installed "correctly" - no more leakage....


http://www.geocities.com/danielzink/944ro1.jpg

If it was as easy as slapping the aluminum backing plates on these axles and bolting everything together and it all worked right - MBT wouldn't be making repro backing plates and we wouldn't be searching every Porsche breaker in the country for these steel ones.


Dan

Hi

Did you have the O ring on the axle behind the slinger? I've fitted lots of later model drums and backing plates to swingers with no problems. On short axle cars I only needed to cut down the snout on drum.

Steve

Think in the third picture you can actually see the o-ring.

Dan

i emailed the guy ( the one i got the pictures from ) and he said this.

Oldspeed in Paramount Ca. can machine the aluminum ones for you, I paid $80. It was about 6 years ago, maybe his price is different. Talk to Russell. They are the ones in the picture. I have them on two cars and don’t have a problem with leaks, seals are 6 years old. They seal just like an early axle. The picture of the hub was just to show how the front was machined down and the rear for a bit of extra clearance on the drum mod. Maybe the people who have leaks didn't machine deep enough for the backing plate to go over the bearing. Are these going on a bug? My friend did the same thing in 1992, never had a problem. It's a lot of brake for a bug. I have front and backs on my bus, first time I drove it I almost supermanned it through the safaris. I will look if I have and axle tube and axle to take pictures bolting it together. It might be cheaper if you do it the other way, you can save on the machining cost and just bolt on the steel. I've never tried that one.

hey, flat i knowticed your now selling rear 944 brakes to fit swingaxles. could you please tell me what needs to be done to the stock 1985 na 944 brakes to run them on a long axle short spline set up? id like to do the machining myself. any help would be great
thanks

I'm not sure about the long axle/ short spline setup. I'm trying to sneak in some time to mock it up. I did the long/long setup first, because it's the most common, especially with all the bus guys and straight-axle conversions.

In general, there are 2 problems with the alum backplates on swingaxle:

1) the bearing depth is not right, so the bearing is not captured right and floats around (which is not good). You have to machine the 944 backplate, press in a sleeve and the machine the bearing pocket to capture the bearing.

2) The oil seal does not seal properly, so the front side of the 944 back-plate has to be machined to allow the seal to properly seat and stop leaks.

I'll let you know what I come up with regarding the long/short setup

Lanner

Lanner,

Any update on the rear setup for early swing axles?

Thanks,
Dave M.

Yeah, it's not a problem. I've done quite a few sets for the short axle tubes. The machining is different from the long-axle, but it's do-able. Also, the 944 hub requires that the snout be machined down for the short axle.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/490129.jpg

Lanner

hey lanner it bob in va I will be sending you some stuff soon...