Fitting a G50 in a bug chassis....
 

I'm doing it quite differently to Wally, mainly (as he loves to say! ;-)) due to the Subaru engine I'm going to use.
Using the bug trans bellhousing face as a datum, I am moving the trans 70mm forwards and 25mm up to give me a bit more ground clearance too. I'm using a short nose G50.

Started cutting....
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri...centre_cut.jpg

And some more and the trans can be located, You can see I made up a temporary method of fixing the position of the rear of the transmission
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/g50_in.jpg

Loads of space on the left hand side
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/g50_in_left.jpg

Now front mounts welded in
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri...s_bracket2.jpg

No going back now! I wasn't happy with how much had been cut out of the right side framehorn so I decided to make up new stronger framehorns.
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/horns_cut.jpg

Central splined section now cut up and reversed and rewelded further out inside the torsion housing, this way I can use the shorter torsion bars from a swing axle car.
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri..._trial_fit.jpg

Skip forwards a few steps...
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri...orn_weld_2.jpg
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri...orn_weld_3.jpg
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri...orn_weld_5.jpg

I'm now making up a much stronger floor, but that's another story!
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/floor_frame_2.jpg

Rich

Rich,
I am at the same spot you are, fabbing up my cage. I am really interested in your new "Floor rails". Is there anyway you can post a photo of that new "Rail" you have sitting on the chassis from the top down? With the specs for the materials.

it is the next part that I need to make.
thanks for posting photos of your build.

That's looking good Ricola. Keep up the great work!

Here are a few pictures:

http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/floor_frame_4.jpg
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri...ear_tacked.jpg
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri...front_mock.jpg

More on my website tho and it will hopefully be updated soon as I want to get the new frame welded together.

Rich

I like your work! It's great to see the same thing done 2 different ways (yours and wally's), and both done so well. At least for me it's verry inspirational.
Keep the pics coming :D

Forgot to say:
tube used is 40mm (width of edge of stock floorpan) x 60mm (height of my cabrio sill strengtheners) x 3mm wall (balance of weight/price).

Nice looking start to the chassis Rich. One point you may wish to consider is removing the front seat support and substituting a crossmember to which you can bolt the floor pan. The crossmember itself will add considerable torsional stiffness and when combined with the floor pan the whole thing will be even stronger, which can't be a bad thing with a cab body?

(I see that your looking to lower the C of G with all that RHS tubing??? LOL)

Clive

I've done more than remove the seat support, the original floors have gone in the scrap bin! I plan to use similar tubing for the front and rear seat mounts that will tie in the tunnel to the side members of the chassis. I'm toying with getting the whole lot galvanised when I'm done too. The whole lot is not that heavy surprisingly :)

A bit more done now...

Put the body on the chassis to get everything aligned perfectly before welding it all together
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/body_on_pan.jpg

Years of bodges! Several plates, filler and pidgeon **** welding.
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri...head_rust2.jpg

Front end together, nearly ready for welding...
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/chassis_front.jpg

I'd stay away from the galvanizing - there are too many horror stories of distortion. Even Land Rover chassis's have that problem. You could shot blast it and epoxy coat it for a very durable and repairable system?

I'm not concerned about the exterior, it's more for the internals. There's a locla kit car company that has their chassis galvanised, I can ask them about distortion. By the time I'm done it's going to be very stiff!

As I understand it the thinner the metal the more susceptable it is to distortion. The hot dip galvanizing process seems to release all the stresses within the metals, which is more apparent with welded/fabricated units. The heating/cooling induced (welding) stresses need to be fully balanced in production to prevent untoward distortion. Land Rover chassis's for example are built of 3-5mm plate that is immensely strong but the galvanizing process turns it all into butter - Land Rover won't for that reason galvanize their chassis. Looking at your chassis build which looks very strong for the application I would be concerned that it would still distort. You could try it but it would be a shame if after all your excellent work if it did distort.

Fair point, I've never had anything done personally so am not fully aware of all the pitfalls, a mate mentioned it to me over the weekend. I've seen some floorpans distorted by other dipping processes but I was thinking of doing it pre floor fitment. Thinking about it most of the internals of the tunnel are still remarkably well coated and I should be able to get access to any new uncoated areas OK. I've got lots of brackets etc etc to fit before it becomes a real issue too so no rush...

What kind of angles did you get with the CVs running that far forward??

I haven't measured, it is not ideal but then plenty of people run lowered cars and the CVs don't care if the change is up/down or forwards/backwards. I'll use 944 CVs/axles to start with and if I feel I want less angle I'll switch to early 944 ally arms as they position the hub further outboards with longer axles and I'll use 930 CVs.

Nice fabrication work Richard! (no, really :D)

Indeed, furthermore, the G50 has a strange caracteristic as its differential seems to be placed further forward relatively to the bellhousing than a type 1 or 915 box for that matter. Not sure if that was with the 1 inch shortenend bellhousing or not. Anyway, if you place it further forward, the problem is less than you think I just wanted to say.
Besides, ever looked at the axle angles of an original manual VW412? The tranny in there is placed (much) further forward originally!!! Hence it also has angled axles and stock 100mm CV's. That obviously was done because of a better weight transfer. So we're just following the factory in its thinking really :cool:
Just FYI ;)

Nipped out this evening to weld the chassis sections together, then removed it so I can add some extra sections more easily. Getting there! :D

http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/chassis_1.jpg

http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/chassis_2.jpg

Away this weekend so no more progress for a week or so...

torsion bar tye-in...
 

Love all the build images so far ricola.
Can you tell me about your plan to tye in the torsion bar housing?
I am looking at matching your perimeter forms, with round stock for the upper portion of my 'rollcage' but I am unsure as to how I should go about connecting the torsion bar housing into the floor section?

Thoughts?

It won't be anything fancy, just small sections of the tube shaped to fit inbetween the rear crossmember pieces and the torsion bar housing...
I'll get to it when I flip the chassis over.

and how about weight?
Have you weighed out your parts to get a picture for totall additional weight with the way your building?
I would be curious as to the weight per foot of the box tube your using.

Strength is much more important than weight for me, especially in a cabrio and considering it will have an excess of power. There are easier ways to get better strength/weight but not hidden, I want this car to look relatively stock to help with the sleeper approach.

Weight of the tubing is just over 4kg per metre..

Well, its just a run of the mill suby engine...don't get over excited by what it will put out :lmao: ;)

lol, this engine is only 300bhp, the next version will be a fair bit more, I'm thinking about a 2.5sti based engine next... got to come up with some other projects and stop my habit of selling cars the second I finish them!

Lets see some dyno proof of all that big hp talk of you :D

in time...

Heh, that is what i am working with 05' 2.5T STI engine... Can't wait to get it booted up.
Just waiting on my adapter kit... damn all this waiting...

Not sure how much of it would be used in the end, stronger rods, pistons, heads, turbo etc etc I still have to do some more research as I have a closed deck RA engine now which may be a better base...

Bit more done...

Cut rust out of chassis:
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri...epair_prep.jpg

Then fabricaate new panels and weld them in, took a bit of beating to get the right shape with that thick steel!
http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri...tom_repair.jpg

Added some drain holes to help prevent problems in the future too...

Very nice work Richard!
Structural rigidity will probably be greatly enhanced by this.

One thing I was going to ask you Wally, did you shorten/lengthen your shift rod at all? Mine is roughly going to end up with the base of the shifter in the same place as stock so pulled back a bit by the bend will probably be just about right for me but it has been a while since I drove the thing so am open to opinions...

Yes, I did need to lengthen it quite a bit. Made this pic. You can see the welded piece in between, but I used quite some overlap, so the actual lengthening is a bit less than you think you see ;)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...0.jpg~original

Oh, don't mind the extra piece I made on the coupler. It turned out not to be neccesary.

The need to convert to a hydraulic clutch gave me the excuse to splash out on this pedal box...

http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/pedals_1.jpg

I'm going to try and fit the pedals less offset than original and will also sink them to the bottom of the chassis tubes so the new floor won't change too much, while covering the master cylinders.

Rich,

I presume those are push cylinders? Whose pedal box is it? Whats the lever ratio? Have you got a remote balance bar adjuster?

On mine I have lifted the floor in front of the original pedal cluster and found the ergonomics infinitely better. The void created is about 50mm so as to accommodate the (pull) m/cs in the future. I can't emphasize how much better raising the floor is. I have always thought that the bug pedals were too high and prevented fine and proper control hence the reason I tried it.

Yes, they are push, the pedal box is from OBP
http://www2.obp.uk.net/catalog/produ...8ba398ceda884a
5:1 ratio, takes remote adjuster.

For the gains involved from pull cylinders I don't think they would make an appreciable real world difference. Technically I admit the sideloading should be less, but then more complicated to make with more sealing which may bring the resistance back up to push cylinder levels.

As for position, I've got big feet so ergonomically they will be fine for me and I am building it for me, not an ergonomic standard. Do you have small feet? ;) The floor will be slightly raised to accomodate the cylinders, I am using the lowest floor position as a base (40mm lower than stock floor height) and the cylinders need 70mm so there will be a 30mm raise, but then the pedals are about that much taller than stock so floor to pedal height will not change.

Nice units!

The reason for asking about the pull/push cylinders is that in the configuration shown the push cylinders will be below the fulcrum point whereas they are above the fulcrum on pull cylinders. The main difference will be the o/a height and I guess that the difference between the two systems would be ~ 100-120mm(?)

As regards my shoe size I still have trouble find glass slippers that fit! lol. But I confirm that they are just below the average. I've always found that with VW bugs I've always had to lift my feet off the floor to operate the pedals with the ball of my foot - that doesn't happen on any other car I have driven that mostly were pendant pedal boxes. The idea for raising the floor came from looking at a few of the car club's rally cars where even with standard pedal boxes the drivers have raised the floor by usually 50mm to give (so they say) a more positive feel on the pedal. I tried it on the bug and found that the pedal pads were just at the right height so that my heel didn't lift off the floor and the leg position from the standard seat height was much more comfortable and 'modern'. With the raised foot the arc of travel for the standard pedal was just right also.

With the raised floor I also took the opportunity to add an additional 50mm tall crossmember from the tunnel to the heater channel that ought to add a bit more torsional stiffness to the chassis/floor pan - I don't know how much but as I had to put something across to support the raised floor I tried to make the design do other duties as well.

Hi Rich

The pedal box looks interesting, are the pedal pads closer to the driver? I'm 6' 1" tall and I couldn't have the pedals any closer to the driver than they are now.

Off subject but something to do with ergonomics, I found on my old 1302 with Recaro seats, that I always had poor clutch control, as in the last bit of travel. It was like my knee joint didn't work properly at a certain angle. I always blamed this on my heavy clutch.

I then fitted the same seats and runners temporarily to another bug for a road trip, had the same problem with the clutch control.

I have different seats in my daily 1303 from a Honda with no clutch control issues, when I get my other WRX 1303 going it will have these same Recaros from the old 1302, I will need to do serious looking at the two seating positions.

Steve

Hi

I forgot to mention this regarding your pedals. A local V8 touring car builder and driver Larry Perkins with VW connections always made the pedals in the race cars floor pivot, just like a VW.

He felt that this way the drivers ankles would be less fatigued because they move in a natural motion.

Steve

I've used the old pedal position as a starting point and like you I'm 6'1" so don't want them further back than stock. As you see them in the pics they are in stock position, but I will try to move them forwards a bit more and also more central to the driver. The heater channel and throttle pedal will be my limiting factors.

The whole reason I am doing the pedals now is to help me define the seat position so know where you are coming from, I may even relocate the steering wheel to be more central too... Agree with floor hinged pedals too, I've never understood why a lot of people find them strange, just what you get used to I suppose.

Bit more progress last night:

http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/dropped_floor.jpg

http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabri...ed_floor_2.jpg

Great work.
its nice to see the fine details on your chassis.
To say your a skilled builder would be a dramatic understatement.

Did a bit more:

5mm thick strips welded in to mount the pedal box too and I also reshaped the front section to enable the pedals to sit more centrally.

http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/pedals_3.jpg

http://www.ricola.co.uk/images/cabrio/pedals_2.jpg

Nice fabrication! I see you have the body on it again as well :)