Thanks for the vids Wally. Always good to watch you and your car in action.

good work on the PB and glad you all enjoyed the night racing.

Getting close to that 10 Wally! Congratulations! Nice run!

Have you considered something like this?
http://tangerineracing.com/chassis.htm At the Bottom for the page is camber boxes for a Porsche 914. I installed them on a customers car and dont think they would be too much of a pain to mod to fit a Super. Crhris is a good person to talk to abuot this. But he is in the States.

No, but then again I also don't see how that would adress some of the things I see as 'upgradable' on my particular super? I don't have a camber issue nor would this be usable on my car to improve caster, seeing what I already have done up top for caster adjustment and what room there is left (none) between the tower reinforcements.

I know Chris rather well as far as oversees contacts go btw as I have purchased his tangerine exhaust 5 years ago. He is indeed a super nice guy and great fabricator and designer!

Next week ('Super-sunday') I am running a Time-Attack event here on the Zandvoort track. Very excited to see if I am able to improve my time there too :)

Some Time Attack action from last weeks sunday:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Fl...012%252060.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...8.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...3.jpg~original

I was 5th in my class of 31 cars during warm-up.
Unfortunately I was disqualified after 10/15 minutes for being 'too noisy'... (99dB vs limit of 92 dB apperently):o

Noise limit on a race track?

We have that problem on most of our racetracks, new people move in the area and then complain about the noisy cars, they must also have relations that move next to airports and have the whinge about aircraft noise

Pretty much a world-wide racetrack problem...

Yep, it surprised me however as on regular track days there I've never been pulled off since I run a separate muffler for the external wastegate..
A 90 degree rerouting of the downpipe exit away from the noise measuring point will help some, but 7dB gap probably needs a second in-line muffler...

Yeah Wally,

7db is a LOT it's more than twice as loud. Every 3db sound doubles.

Hi Ron,
Yeah, thats what I feared..

How are you mate? Did you get some work done on the car last year?

Cheers,
Walter

Those tracks will never host a real race event. F1, Le Manns Series, Indy Cars, Drag Racing. Hell even Red Neck Roundy-Round. They are all loud as hell. Racing is loud. Unless you want to watch the Lib-Tard Prius 500.
With the exception of the Audi TDI prototype (almost silent) every race car I have heard is very loud.

A little OT, but thats not entirely true.
Thats because sound is accumulated into 'baskets' of loudness versus (or x) time.
For instance, that same track (Zandvoort) has held a full DTM race and also historic races which have some very loud cars. Some weekends have special permits or are called 'sound days'.
So, x sound levels during x time (or instances you pass the mic) determines how much total loudness is allowed during a day. The total sound level during an event is what is 'sold' to an event organisor.
All sound added in a year is the limit of their permit. Obviously they didn't want to 'spend' it on our little meaningless track sessions. :(
In other words, if I had been allowed to continue driving, another event furtheron in the year could have cancelled.
Its a little stupid as furtheron inside the track, 1/4 mile runs with open exhausts, drifting, 'Ghymkana' and bike burn-outs were held, all being much louder then my car. Unfortunately, only the TimeAttack cars drove past the microphone that day...

Hi

Wally maybe you need a swivelling exhaust outlet so that you can direct it away from the microphone

A track I've ran at has very strict noise restrictions, the owner of the track will offer you a roll of chicken wire to poke up your exhaust which does an amazing job but maybe not 7db.

Steve

Laguna Seca is really serious about sound. There is a problem with some one almost every time I'm there. Same deal, louder allowed on certain dates, quiet on most.

Car looks great on three wheels in the corners Wally, how stable does it feel when you are pushing it like that ?

Cheers for that Graham,

A friend did install a Go-pro in the car during the run those pics are taken, so I would hope to show you later. Image was taken up-side down so some editing needs to be done probably.

The car is pretty stable in low-speed corners though and has very little understeer imo. At least with my driving style, which compared to others, isn't that aggressive or so I heard. of course they were just too chicken to tell me I didn't give it 100% :lmao:
But in all seriousness, I don't have a trailer with me so I don't push it into risking spinning or crashing. And that leaves some time on the table. So be it.

There is however still a problem when accelerating hard towards (and past) about 120-125 mph (190-200 km/h) where the car wants to change direction too easy (too much from only very little steering input) or almost by itself. Same I felt at Spa-Francorchamp. Although rear coil overs would surely help some (its too soft in the rear atm), the real problem is very probably aero related is my conclusion of the past years.
Without a rear wing of some sort, the beetle shape gets very light in the rear and any imbalance from wind or slight steering input gets eggagurated (sp?) and it just feels instable then and its not the front!

Last year with the same TimeAttack round at the same track I used my modified simple single flat plane rear wing and it felt just fine I can remember. So I will try to make a little nicer and will probably not run on a track without it anymore.
Funny thing is, EVERY other make of car, especially in the faster classes runs a rear wing, while my beetle, who's shape REALLY needs it the most, didn't have a rear wing (the ducktail is too low for that qualification) because... it looks a bit odd or ugly to others...
By now, having felt what I did in the car, I think I'am finally past that ;)

I think a spoiler above the rear window would be more effective.Due to the bug's shape at the rear,there is much less airflow to the spoiler at its current position.Imho that's the reason your flat spoiler felt better because it was higher and getting more flow.

No building just part collecting and repairing. I grabbed a couple of 4 tab bonnets which are expensive and hard to find down under.
Oh and i got a new car. another 69 semi auto but this one is amazingly straight and rust free. Already stripped it and sold the parts for more than i paid for the car. :lmao:

Regarding the wing, go for it mate. Join me and Steve c in the big arse wing club!!!!

I agree Mark.

I will Ron, no worries :D
Good score, I may need to take one of those 4-tabs of your hands as I just bought a '59 body without hood (or anything else for that matter)...
:rolleyes: ;)

What about the carbon fiber wings often sold by import tuners? Any chance they actually work?

Jason

my big arse wing, yet to test it

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/...5.jpg~original

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/...7.jpg~original

You know i run a big wing at the back and dont reach the same speeds as you, mines geared for 116mph@7000rpm.
i would not not race mine with out as it makes thats much difference. I ran it at north wheld drag strip and ran 14.00 [no quicker than it was running with the wing] the run was fine but when i lifted off at the top end [only 86mph] it tryed to swap ends on me. I drove straight back to the pits and bolted it back on.
It may look ugly and out of place but it works and works well, the front spolier/splitter along with the rear wing made a 4 second improvement at Prescott hill climb which is under a mile long.

Probably some, but I think I would need to modify a lot on them to be and fit how I would like it on my car with the intercooler and all.
Still, as a base they could be usefull.

This is more like what I think will work well: big side end plates and higher placed horizontal plane:
(tnx to CSP for the pic)
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...o.jpg~original

I'll put one in my suitcase :rolleyes:

Yeah, shipping would kill the deal probably.

I'll dig out my old wing then after next saturday (dynoday) and try to at least get some decent stands made for it, out of strong alu of course.
Maybe just remake it entirely...hmmm.

Leave em off, wings have done enough damage to motorsport, and anyway, they make it look like you are trying , I pull 120 mph at brands hatches paddock hill bend and feel very relaxed even without my b/d workmate bolted to the back,, a 911 in front had one on and looked very on the limit, so i breezed past , he looked angry, nice.

Unfortunately, I go faster then that. With 400+ hp unleashed, things get different I know now. I am also not focussing on stock 911's, they are toast anyways, the modified 964's and up are more of a match.
Besides, I'am not trying, I'am doing.

Maybe you could create a spoiler like doc Gerold (no that's not me, I am Gerrelt.. :) ) :

http://www.gerrelt.nl/roofspoiler/1303_holzapfel.jpg

But then with some slots in the spoiler near the top of the rear window to let some air through for the intercooler. I think such a spoiler is aesthetically pleasing too.

I can also send you one of my spoilers, then you can try if it makes any difference. If it doesn't work you can send it back.
But I think at such speeds you need a bigger spoiler then mine.

Do you have the roof lip or just a naked body? I have the same very uncomfortable feeling as Wally, just wondering if you've got big kahunas and drive through it or just don't run into that problem.

Jason

I guess I'll chime in since I've got the largest rear wing around :lmao:

I've found that even at 60-70mph when the bug was at the limits, those limits were lower without the rear wing on my car. Over 100mph got sketchy very quickly going into braking zones because the rear was already sooo light. With the wing the car stays planted and the faster you go the more you notice the stability. Since your intercooler relies on airflow over the back window I'd suggest running a single or dual element wing, even with the top of the back window and over the vents vertically. That's how I've got mine setup and I can speak for it's effectiveness.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l4...i.jpg~original

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l4...i.jpg~original

I think a rear spoiler such as the one Thomas Wöhr has ( the pic above that Gerrelt posted) would be a good solution and can be relatively easily done.

I think it has become more and more obvious from the input of many who drive their bugs on tracks, be it dragrace - or circuit tracks, that some sort of rear spoiler, be it to just only reduce or eliminate lift, is paramount. If only for safety reasons.

Of course, I rather not use one as well. I sooo much prefer the understatement of a stock (ish) beetle. You could even bring that back to the german-look - and I deliberately use the term G-Look here as you may notice. Stealth-style, understatement or 'mehr sein als scheinen' in my best german, is very much part of the german-style or '-look' so you like, imo. So, just for that, I would prefer NOT to use a wing. I have tried on and off in the past, but to be honest, and I think the testimony of Humble describes it best, its just not safe if you go up to the speeds mentioned.

What solution for this everybody uses depends on their cars, suspension set-ups and lots of other things.
I already have made some sort of contraption out of the 'street-wing' that I got from aircooled.net some years ago and I think I will develop that a little further as I like the position it now has (higher and not too wide) on my car, also considering the intercooler placement.
I'll sure keep you guys informed here ;-)

For a clean stockish look a diffusor would be be best,but it's hard to realize on a bug and remain subtle yet effective.

A diffuser will never be very effective on a beetle because of reasons already mentioned, but a little bit of effect from both would probably do enough.

One solution is to have a large rear wing like mine but make it removable. I can unbolt the wing and stanchions from the back of the car if I need to. It only leaves the feet of the stanchions on the car, you may have seen this on "ricer" cars. A smaller wing might fit up front or in the back seat for transport.

You could also try to make the ducktail spoler you allready have more effective.

In this autospeed article they talk about the vortex generators of the Mitsubishi Evo: Blowing the Vortex part 2
(a quote: "The longer the arrow, the faster the airspeed." :lmao: ..inside keversite joke)

They talk a lot about less drag in the article, but I think these vortex generators are also there to direct more air to the rear spoiler, making it more effective.

The new Beetle RSi also does this, but then with a rear window spoiler:

http://www.vwvortex.com/gallery/albu...e%20RSI/12.jpg

I think its primary function is to direct more airflow to the rear bonnet spoiler.

Just some food for thought.

Edit: I found the Mitsubishi research article, interesting read: Research article

Jason,sorry i missed your post up there, but to answer you, yes, i run it bare, running low is the secret, and lots of castor, i run it at 40mm as my regs dictate, a bit less actually, ive cut off or clearanced all the low points, and i also exploit the open deck technique, whereby the underflow air is used to flow into the normally turbulent air behind the car, killing drag and lift, you see it on many sports proto types etc, my deck lid and rear panel are massively vented to exhaust the airflow from over the motor, the deck lid hinge panel is gone for the same reason, the engine bay is also open to air, another huge plus for the wasser motor. does it work? well its a very stable platform,and i feel an outright win is on the cards next season. we'll see, there's no hiding place out there.