@Alex. Do you anyhow compensate for the (lateral) free-position of the uniball?
Both during installation and (toe-)alignment, you might induce static preload on the components which could decrease the 'reserve'. The load distribution between the components is not only determined by its geometry, but also by their relative stiffnesses. Especially compared to stock, the lateral stiffness of the setup is much larger. A stock springplate can easily flex in lateral direction and is therefore capable of handling all kinds of suspension irregularities. Since both the uniball housing and bracket have become quite stiff, the stresses will mainly concentrate on the thread which connects both parts. Quality and fabrication type is therefore important for its lifetime, as we all know.

Extending to the overall suspension: Increasing the stiffness of the inner pivot (for instance also a uniball) could maybe help to off-load the outer uniball setup, but at the same time would require more facilities to prevent excessive preload. The same reasoning can be done the other way around.

I am not trying to rant, but just interested in your opinion and general discussion, as you are confident enough to sell these setups. We've seen the pictures of failed uniball setups on this forum, so it is never bad to think about these things before being overwhelmed by those shiny parts ;).

All i can say with confidence that my parts are as strong as remmele/mbt setup, if made from 7075 T6 alu :)

Housing design is similar, but thicker and has 20mm joint instead of 18mm joint. I also added side gussets to my design bracket, it made significantly stronger to resist bending.

Yes, its true that with this style parts, there is no more flex like with springplates.

Uniball joint itself in its housing can move sideways 4 degrees to both sides, but there is no joint slop at sideways inside housing.

Yeah, the threaded bar can indeed broke at any design, i have seen too. I think too that is caused by arm moving too much sideways caused by too much flexing inner bushing?

I would / could do in a future modified connecting bar with two opposite direction threads, to have easier fine tuning. Too bad that my machinist doesnt have any left hand taps, they cost about 100 euros.

One possibility to convert existing assemblies to change uniball joint to left handed thread version and have made only connecting rod.


But i did design long holes to brackets for finetuning at 944 aluarm application.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5839/moc410tappi.jpg

these lookin real nice Alex ,can i ask what limits the downward travel (the springplate used to sit in the ledge) or how it could be done..

There is more travel than with springplates, i dont know much more exactly.

I think what Turbonutta wanted to know is what is it that fysically limits travel eventually.
My guess is its the end/limit on the damper itself that limits downward travel.

If this is the case...its going to void the warranty on any commercially produced damper out there. I'm not aware of any company that doesn't require external limits for both upwards and downward travel.

For my car, to keep the QA1 warranty I have the stock bumpstops in place for upward travel, and installed limiting straps for downward travel. I'll try and snag some photos of my setup the next time it's up on stands. The limiting straps for suspension drop were a fairly significant puzzle to sort out!

Anyone looking at uniball setups should be aware that the car doesn't need to take air for full droop to occur, and with it possible damage to the damper. This is an issue for _all_ uniball options, since the stock downward limiter is eliminated.

-Dave

yes wally you are correct i wanted to no what limited the downward travel, maybe a limiting strap or simular could work, is the shock strong enough to limit travel, i know its only going to its limit when on a jack or going over a hump

im still trying to decide if i want/need a set of these as im still fitting my alloy arms

Yeah, shock limits the downtravel first probably. After it, the uniball joint hits to housing parts. Max safe angle is 65 degrees for joint.


http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/60/maxtravel.jpg

That doesn't look like a problem at all: the front Mc Pherson struts are limited also by the shock's max downward travel. All other OEM cars also I think? Only inward travel needs an external limit as the whole car then needs to be slowed down. Full downward travel just needs to slow down the weight of the wheel and suspension. The down travel being dampenend by the shock's action anyways, so the 'bump' will be minimal I would think.
Why you think thats a problem or voids warrenties Turbonutta?

Limit straps originated from swing axle gearboxes imo where you didn;t want the suspension going extremely positive on camber ('tucking under the car') which caused lot of accidents back in the days iirc. If the shock isn't overly long, your CV's will cope and there is no problem. Or am I missing s/th?

Front struts as used in MacPherson strut assemblies are designed with an internal bump stop as part of the strut. This is not the case with all shocks out there, and it's far more likely the rear coil-over shocks used by most GL folks do not have internal bumpstops. I don't have the QA1 documentation handy, but it specifically mentioned installing suspension limiters for both upwards and downwards movement to protect the piston and valve assembly from possibly topping or bottoming out. The documentation was clear about how not having limiters (in both directions) would void the warranty.

Every shock is different, and since they're typically not used in the intended application people should be checking. For my QA1's, I had to install limiting straps to ensure the shock doesn't top out. Anyone who's running these shocks without, is running without a warranty and potentially damaging the valving.

-Dave

Where in a Mc Pherson strut is the rebound limiting?

Inbound is clear with the rubber boot thingy in there, but what is there for full extension?

Seriously, I really wouldn't know.

A strut cartridge designed for a macpherson strut front suspension will have an internal rubber (or similar) disc which keeps the valves from contacting the shock body on full extension. This is also found inside the mono-tube style shocks used on the torsion bar front suspension in a beetle. I can't say for sure if it's found in the design of the rear monotubes (stock style shocks), but it doesn't matter as the stock spring plates keep the suspension from fully extending the shock.

Universal coil-over shocks are designed without any internal protection, and its accepted practice in dirt-track racing that limiters are designed in the suspension linkage for both bottom out and top out. The only shocks I can't confirm are the Fox shocks, as there is nothing online about the requirements. This isn't too surprising though, as there was nothing online about the QA1's...it's only because I read the materials in the box that I realized.

I will get photos of my limiting straps up soon.

-Dave

Here is a second version which i have designed. The housing is one piece desgin and also uses M20 joint instead of smaller joint what MBT and Remmele are using.. Goes down under :)


http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9...ll944aluar.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9...ll944aluar.jpg

Like!
I hope I can afford a set one day.

I am not sure that can i get done these single piece uniball housings at locally. For this i need quite big block of aluminum and also needs time at lathe, if nice looks at outer surface is needed.


I have to ask if someone wants this style.

Hi

But what about absorbers? What will fit for this system?

Regards
Kamil

Remmele sells coilovers what will fit well to rear. Also here at the forum is more info about rear coilovers. QA1, Koni and AVO are quite popular.

but i cant find fx QA1 dealer in Europe :( Only Kerscher - 880 E/pair - what about remmele price? Do u know?

Does it matter really? I bought QA1 coilovers from autofabcart, not so expensive. Shipping was $72.

Remmele shocks are also expensive, around 850€ about 200€ more than QA1.

http://remmelemotorsport.com/fahrwerk.html

Ok, can you tell me which type of QA1 i should buy? And which springs?

QA1 Promastar, single or double adjustable. Dont know the exact lenght, you have to measure it. Stock irs shocks are about 11"-16".


Use around 350-425 lbs springs with stock weight drivetrain and mild engine, more hardcore motor etc maybe 450-550 lbs springs.


On steel irs arms you might have to drill another hole to the arm, see here:

http://www.germanlook.net/forums/sho...&highlight=QA1

Here are QA1 shocks on aluarms at Humbles car:

http://www.germanlook.net/forums/sho...t=7848&page=19

thanks, it helped me :)

Hmmm..seems my post from earlier today didn't work out. QA1 has changed their part numbers in the past year. The "popular" QA1 shocks on this site are the following:

DS402 - Single Adjustable Shock
DD402- Double Adjustable Shock

They use 2.5" springs, and you'll find that the spring interferes with both the stock shock mount and the CV Joint. Best solutions (IMHO) are to make new lower shock mounts and use Motorsport CV Boots. For the motorsport Boots I used GKN part number MSJ6002 (Type1 CVs):
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7062/6...b7ee27a4_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7040/6...bd22b75b_z.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7168/6...bfa70cc6_z.jpg

For the lower shock mounts, I'd go with something fully custom build/welded as opposed to modding the factory mounts. I started with modding the factory mounts and so much is cut away its arguably not strong enough or safe.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5344/7...848352d8_z.jpg http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5326/6...f0bccddb_z.jpg

-Dave

Doesn't have QA1 have 2,25" springs and perches? I even run 2.25" on the front (other brand).

Do you only run 300lbs springs on the rear? I started with that on the front and now run 400 already there...

hi freaks ;)

so - if i choose DD402 should i use 9 or 10" springs? and fx on autofabcart are:

http://autofabcart.net/search.aspx?f...lse&category=4

350 lbs? 400lbs? i have vw1302 and 2028 engine :)

QA1 told me they only ever offered these with 2.5" springs, though someone posted up that their set was using 2.25" springs. QA1 said I could lathe down the perches (They don't sell a 2.25" set for these shocks) but when I did the math there would be so little meat left on the threaded perch I decided against it. The 300lb springs were used for testing/fitting only, as soon as the engine went in I moved to 550's.

9" springs will be a better choice, or even an 8". I'm using 8" 550lbs out back with my 1302. With the 8" length I can swap out the springs without having to remove the axle or anything else. The 9" springs I have just *barely* pop on without issues. I think if they were stiffer then 300lbs I'd have difficulty for sure.

-Dave

Yeah, 550's sound about right.

ok, i ordered 550 lbs :)

550 sounds a lot, but i havent tried yet coilovers at back. Mendeola uses most of the time at their rear kit 450lbs springs.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/910793.jpg



Does it just look like that with aluarms there is more room between coilover and CV joint boot, or is there?

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2784/hinterachse.jpg

so..i changed order for 500 lbs :)

Two things to consider: The kits used in their photographs are for a fiberglass speedster kit which is considerably lighter. Their shock mounting points are changed and thus the leverage ratio is likely different then our (typically) stock mounting points.

With stock shock mounts a 300lb spring will have the suspension sink to 1/2" off the bumpstops with just a body & transmission. No glass, no motor. 550lbs rides well, slightly stiffer then stock, and still requires preload to adjust the ride height with a complete car.

-Dave

Good info Dave and nice pictures Alex!
Kendy, I think you should probably get used to the idea that a completely modified suspension with coil-overs is just not exactly right the first time and needs adjustments to work as well as you anticipated when you wanted to change from stock.
Buying more then one set of springs is part of that adjustment I think. I ordered an extra set of springs (they don;t cost much btw) two years in a row and I think I have it set now. Sometimes you also need to get used to new springs a little. I changed over back and forth a few times and got a feel for what works best better now.
With a 40/60 weight ditribution (guesstimate) I guess for my car a 600lbs spring theoretically sounds best with my 400lbs front springs, but you never know till you try it. For now, I seem to overpower the 25.5mm rear torsion bars with drag starts. Each application is different is what I am trying to say and multiple sets of springs might just not be avoidable.

Alu arms are wider in general as you know, but the CV sits even further in the arm, making the shaft itself relatively longer then the increase in track width would suggest. Hence never a clearance problem with the CV boot.

Nice set-up BTW. Who's (german) car is this? I would like to see where he has mounted that sway bar and who's coil-overs thos are.

Don't know that car, i have had that picture few years. I remember that you have aluarms also, what lenght shocks are you using?

I havent yet bought rear shocks, just today got hubs and hats anozied to black, they are awesome. Now sawing for the transaxle.

Yeah, thats why I was interested: I now use 944 shocks (Koni yellow) and they have their (shortenend) bump stop about the same time as my (also shortenend) trailing arm bump stops. Its a good match therefore for my current ride height.
These in the pic seem shorter, more inbound travel possibility, which could be helpfull if you were to go even lower in the rear.
Looks like Remmele coil-overs to me, but not sure..

What about Protech shocks recommended by ricola?
For those with steel arms, they come in 1.9" which gives better clearance from the CV boots and reasonably priced..
you can opt for extended base, choose btw bushing or bearings etc..
But gotta check if they have springs higher than 400lbs..

You must 'design' your own shock with them as they will ask what dimensions you'll want and you will have to wait and see if what they make from that is what will fit and work.
I'd rather have a shock/coil-over strut that has proved itself on my application (bug or 944), but the price difference is huge, which makes it all the more difficult..

Third set for aluminum arms is under construction, same as last :)

http://imageshack.us/a/img252/936/un...system7075.jpg

AVO has also many shock lengths, i helped pick up coilovers from AVO for my friends homemade a-arm project for his 1960 beetle.

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motors...oilover-damper

Hi Alex I wondered if these would be a good match for your uniball set up ? regards Graham http://www.ground-control-store.com/.../II=749/CA=219