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-   -   Mythbuster: continuing project thread of my 1303 '75 (https://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9953)

owdlvr June 7th 2012 18:31

Here is a link the the GKN catalog. http://www.rowland2.com/pdfs/cvdisc.pdf

I believe 930's are size 15 CV's and 934 are size 21. They have both plunging and fixed in this catalog.

-Dave

Wally June 8th 2012 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by owdlvr (Post 84006)
Here is a link the the GKN catalog. http://www.rowland2.com/pdfs/cvdisc.pdf

I believe 930's are size 15 CV's and 934 are size 21. They have both plunging and fixed in this catalog.

-Dave

Interesting! I see that T2 CV's are type 13 there and 100mm (99,7) OD.
930 is then type 15 with 108mm
934 would be type 21 and is 128mm (!)

The weight difference:
T2 : 1,4 kg
930: 1,8 kg
934: 3 kg (!!)

If I can keep the T2 CV's in one piece (and assuming we use type 174 in that catalog), that alone saves me almost 0,5 kg unsprung weight per wheel and almost 2kg total weight for the 4 of them.
Not to mention what you would drag along with 934 CV's...

These things add up fast.

Steve Arndt June 8th 2012 12:09

I missed the details Wally. How are you running 930 and T2 on the same axle? The splines are different. I inquired years ago to Sway A Way if they would build me a set like that and they said no way.

Wally June 8th 2012 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Arndt (Post 84011)
I missed the details Wally. How are you running 930 and T2 on the same axle? The splines are different. I inquired years ago to Sway A Way if they would build me a set like that and they said no way.

I don't.. I run the front 964 flanges which have 100mm CV size and fit the G50 as a glove. So I still run 100mm on both sides, just with the simple VW spline.
The axles and CV's are still exactly the same as I ran them on the 915 :)

Wally June 9th 2012 15:05

Engine finally in after I was able to lend a 930/G50 shaft to align the dual plates..

FYI, type 1, 915 and 930/G50 splines next to each other...Guess which is strongest ;)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...1.jpg~original
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

dave forder June 14th 2012 13:44

Hi Wally,
You know what, I wish I had gone for the G50 box way back when the chassis was being done. We will wait and see. It is a hell of a lot of work to get everything out if I break something. I have got some real tasty pictures from John Maher of my engine but can't get them to upload onto the site. Any ideas?

Wally June 14th 2012 16:59

I hear you mate..
Curieus to your engine! Just mail the pics to me and I'll upload then for you. I'll send you a PM with my email.
Greets,
Walter

PS I just installed the last bits of my rebuild engine. Hope to start it tomorrow evening and have it running this weekend.
I'll try to take some pics tomorrow as well.

70Turbobug June 15th 2012 05:05

Wally, your G50 is the smallest of the G50´s correct? As far as outside dimensions.Which one is it exactly? Hope you get back on the road this weekend!

Wally June 15th 2012 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Turbobug (Post 84049)
Wally, your G50 is the smallest of the G50´s correct? As far as outside dimensions.Which one is it exactly?

Smallest may not be the correct term here, it only has the short nose cone. Thats it. All two-wheel drive G50's have the same dimensions, except the turbo-G50's which have an even bigger crown ring.
Mine is a G50/01 ('88). The G50/00 ('87) also have the short nose cone. After that ('90 ->), the longer nose cones came into production.
As you may remember, I also had the bellhousing shortenend. Every little bit helps ;)

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...3.jpg~original

70Turbobug June 15th 2012 09:55

Thanks for the info! Looking good! A new bov also? Can't wait for the next track video!
I'll see you in Spa!

NO_H2O June 16th 2012 07:26

Getting close. Can't wait to see the next video.

dub_crazee June 16th 2012 11:06

looks great - whens the next dyno day?

Wally June 16th 2012 12:19

Been fighting sensor gremlins all day and finally after switching out the VR sensor, it started normally and even restarted hot..pfft.
I had to remodify a LOT of stuff I had changed because of the 1200T install. Things I even had forgot I changed... Anyways, hopefully I can do some tuning tomorrow.
Plan is still to try to do a Nurburgring trackday which is comning friday (!). Even if it runs ok-ish on time (whatever that may be), I hope I can still get on the list for the trackday. Fingers crossed.

I did need to add about 8% in the fuel map without load, so I am just as curieus as you guys if she makes more hp at the same boost now with the new cam.
There is a new dynoday end of september, but I think I will be on it a little sooner if everything stays in one piece.

TSAF June 17th 2012 04:21

Wally everything will work out fine.

Wally June 17th 2012 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSAF (Post 84071)
Wally everything will work out fine.

Your starting to be right: did the first real test drive yesterday and it drove just awesome! Car felt much more nimble and this smaller turbo seemed ready everytime. Cruising in 5th doing 75 mph and overtaking just by a mm more pedal is very cool. The bigger turbo needed noticebly more time for that.
Having full compression again because of straigth rods probably helped too :lmao:
The bigger cam with n/a LC of 108 degrees combined with the smaller turbo seems to work out very well so far. Hope it carries the distance in the rpm range later too.
Clutch is more heavy (stage 2-ish feel, I had stage 1), but very doable and the lighter rotating assembly makes for a rev happy, real sporty engine, despite the low static CR and being turbo :)
Love it so far!

70Turbobug June 17th 2012 11:11

Sounds great Wally! You might not make more power,but maybe a better torque curve and more useable power? That would be much better on the track anyways.So looks like you will raising the bar once again...that´s great!

Wally June 17th 2012 14:05

Just did another test drive at 1 bar boost and I am not too sure if I am not making more power. I usually get this scared (heart pounding in your throat when you keep your foot in it and car takes off) from 1.3 bar boost onwards...
I also had to add a LOT of fuel in the upper rpm ranges now as well, so not sure where this turbo runs out of breath, but at lower boost, I have a distinct feeling it now makes a lot more hp.

Also made a new rear apron-engine sealing plate:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...3.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

Soooo looking forward driving at the Ring again!

70Turbobug June 18th 2012 06:15

Well if it doesn't scare the crap out of you it's not fast enough! Don't forget the HD video camera when you go the ring!

70Turbobug June 18th 2012 06:21

One quick question: where did you get the degree decal for your pulley? From MSS? I have the same pulley and would like to have the timing marks/ degrees on it also.

Wally June 18th 2012 06:40

Good eye!
I think I had one still lying around from Ahnendorp. Its 145mm and probably a US item (buckpack or similar) originally?

vdubzack June 18th 2012 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Turbobug (Post 84080)
One quick question: where did you get the degree decal for your pulley? From MSS? I have the same pulley and would like to have the timing marks/ degrees on it also.

Gene Berg makes one that use. Is of really good quality, and easy to install.

Wally June 20th 2012 06:53

Painted the front hood by myself with a rattle can and put a 25+ years decall on it on both sides :)
We must at least look good at the Ring if speed will be disappointing :lmao:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...1.jpg~original

70Turbobug June 20th 2012 09:58

Ooooh a vintage sticker! I´ll bet there´s probably some cal-look geek that would pay a nice price for that :D

TSAF June 25th 2012 08:22

Wally the monster looks great and you will have the time of your life. Just a question really. Is it possible for your intercooler to be tucked inside the engine space. I saw this http://www.turboboxer.de/ and I was really impressed because you cannot really tell just by looking at the car if it has a natural aspirated engine or a turbo monster in there.:cool:

Wally June 25th 2012 08:30

Sure, but it will be less effective.
Functionality over form/looks and all that ;)

BTW the ring was great! Perfect weather and the 3.5 km straight was 'interesting' especially since its not flat at all. Combined with a good cross/head wind I had to limit speed to 200-205 km/h on the straight.
I now even more understand why car companies test their new models there. I now think I need/want more suspension work done 4sure.

Engine and car held up great again :-)
Can't find pictures from the day itself yet though. Hopefully later this week?

70Turbobug June 25th 2012 10:11

The intercooler from turboboxer is a good contruction, but just as Wally pointed out it's not placed very well.Due to its construction though there's no other option really.It's missing a duct system where fresh air can pass through.The current set up in that position is subjected to heatsoak.There are electric fans also,however I don't believe they are very effective, because again, no or little fresh air is present in the engine bay.

TSAF June 25th 2012 10:19

I understand I just like the normal hood. You cannot tell if its a turbo or not. I thought that the vents on the bodywork are enough for the intercooler. My bad!!

Wally June 25th 2012 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSAF (Post 84123)
I understand I just like normal hood. You cannot tel if its turbo or not. I thought that the vents on the bodywork are enough for the intercooler. My bad!!

OTOH, Armin drives it everywhere, also on the track, hard! His combo obviously works well too.
If you like the stock looking appearence above everything else, that surely is the way to go. He runs waterinjection as well, so...
I just _think_ outboard works a little better still. I have no hard data to prove either, so take it for what its worth.

Armin's car and mine usually are the only two type 4 turbo cars that run on the track at full pace, so whatever your preference, just build it as there are still very few beetles running an aircooled turbo'd boxer of either type on the circuits at all...:(

70Turbobug June 25th 2012 14:34

True Wally, however he doesn't have the performance you have,spool up is later (I presume,I've only ridden is his car.I rode in yours with the 1200 installed and comparing the dyno graphs).His set up works, but I am willing to bet not as well as yours.A comparison of intake temps would be interesting.
Quote:

Armin's car and mine usually are the only two type 4 turbo cars that run on the track at full pace
Hopefully not for long! I'm working to have mine done next summer!

Wally June 25th 2012 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Turbobug (Post 84126)

Hopefully not for long! I'm working to have mine done next summer!

That would be great man!

70Turbobug June 26th 2012 04:29

Thanks Wally, I´m not missing too much.A good trans+clutch,header (looks to be a modified python),tires and a lot of small items.We´ll see how much money I can sneak past the wife ;) Next summer is my goal - I hope I can make it!

TSAF June 26th 2012 06:44

That would be great a 3rd type 4 turbo in Europe's circuits!!!!

Wally June 26th 2012 14:08

First pic available from last NS Trackday. Hope I can get it in a little better quality and a few more from her.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

ricola June 27th 2012 13:58

Wally,
How's the car now with the smaller wheels and sticky tyres?
Rich

Wally June 27th 2012 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricola (Post 84147)
Wally,
How's the car now with the smaller wheels and sticky tyres?
Rich

Worked awesome! The tires haven't even slipped once, not a tiny bit of understeer. I could have gone faster, but was a bit carefull there as you might understand.
It feels nimbler with the smaller wheels, but that might have been the now more responsive engine as well.
Did the synchronisation today as I still hadn't even done that since it was running for the first time last week (just by ear). It does rev great now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GnIKChYmZM

Wally July 2nd 2012 05:31

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...o.jpg~original

Some testing at 23-24 psi showed the limit of the straight acn's pushrods for me now:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...1.jpg~original

TSAF July 2nd 2012 05:37

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GnIKChYmZM

F...ck, I am at the office and I cannot pump up the volume on youtube:angry::angry:

Wally July 2nd 2012 05:44

Well, tbh, the sound was much better IRL then on the vid afterwards... so your not missing that much ;)

TSAF July 2nd 2012 05:51

Still I want to hear the monster

Wally July 8th 2012 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSAF (Post 84191)
Still I want to hear the monster

Here you go mate, but be warned as I think all of these dyno movies start looking the same by now...this one is even particularly uneventfull..:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukslh2TMs4

Had some great 1/8 mi practice runs yesterday at a car event, but with official timing by the Dutch Hot Rod Association (DHRA), a subsidary of the NHRA ;)
Best was a 7.57 but with only a 60ft of 1.92 and I had to lift as the car went almost into the gates at 3/4 of the run...

The "burn-out" where they put me on the dry spot with one wheel (that didn;t help keeping the car straight..) :angry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZfNjq893hs

and two other runs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzpRd9BMuqU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpInP5iOHBI

I think I was fastest car of the weekend and the only bug :lmao:


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