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-   -   Mythbuster: continuing project thread of my 1303 '75 (https://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9953)

Bug@5speed(US) February 19th 2010 14:28

Corbeau club sports, I have used with success on the track, with a 6pt..

Also like them since I am a "large" figure type of guy..

Not fancy but fit the bill and were effective for some club/track event type events.

I really want to save up for the FX or FX Pro, which is a fiberglass shell, and come in wide. They are nice but not sure if FIA cert if that is an issue.

Incidently, I was reading that shortly they were changing the FIA specs for seats.. just something to consider if your doing club racing or similiar where it may be imporant.
VR
Alex

typ4boy February 19th 2010 15:39

Custom L.A.P struts for 18"rims all done sir, will mail you for shipping details mate will be going out tuesday of next week.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...5.jpg~original

Wally February 21st 2010 13:38

Testdrive today with self-made camera mount and the new seat: Wheelspin in 2nd and because of that I shifted in 5th...:o
Car is very itchy without an alignment and without Lee's new struts ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjWGEO925S8

I also need to zoom-in next time, so the lighting will be adjusted better and you see the road better (I hope). Still, it worked better than I thought :)

owdlvr February 21st 2010 16:12

That video makes me want a more powerful engine ;)

-Dave

NO_H2O February 22nd 2010 00:20

Looking good Wally. Love the Vids.

Wally February 22nd 2010 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by NO_H2O (Post 74421)
Looking good Wally. Love the Vids.

Thanks! I hope to be able to shoot some more now this works so well during the upcoming events (track-day 5th march and drag race 14th march)

Forgot to explain: gauge low row, utmost left is boost, the blue light coming on during boost is the activation of the water/meth injection and the flashing orange light means my waterinjection mixture is low. The warning signal is however way above sucktion level, so not too much worries there ;-)
Center top is oil temp and that was very low (60 Celcius) and didn't come higher during longer driving. Outside temp was around freezing point (0 Celcius).
Its probably wise to get the oil thermostat back in line one of these days...

alindeman1989 February 23rd 2010 22:31

can you show me pics of how you are mounthing the seats in the car. like pics with the seats all bolted up and what not

petevw February 24th 2010 00:13

Nice upgrades Wally!

70Turbobug February 28th 2010 12:31

I just can´t say it enough...I love that car!! For me at this point the absolut bench mark in the vw scene.A powerful,driveable and reliable car and looks great,too. One could think,350HP made easy.. well done Wally ;)

Sandeep March 4th 2010 10:22

Looking fine Wally !

Question for you ... can you switch between boost setting maps with the DTA, while you are driving ? Perhaps by a switch or button ? One setting for , say 10 psi (stun) and one setting for 20 psi (kill) ?

Thanks

Sandeep

Wally March 4th 2010 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandeep (Post 74637)
Question for you ... can you switch between boost setting maps with the DTA, while you are driving ? Perhaps by a switch or button ? One setting for , say 10 psi (stun) and one setting for 20 psi (kill) ?

Thanks

Sandeep

Hi,
Yes, with the S60 model it works like you described.
I haven't gotton to that myself though.
The boost control map can almost do the same, but then rpm and trottle position dependent. So, half throttle you develop 10 psi and full throttle can gradually 'drive' through the map towards your setting of 20 psi or whatever. This is basically what a electronic boost control does is my understanding.
Again, an however...: the idea of the PWM boost % map is brilliant, but to get the right psi at a certain % is a lot of tuning. Without a dyno this is a PITA and bringing in different temperatures/tunes into the game, it becomes even more difficult to get a steady boost pressure.

There is a very tricked out PID control boost regulation in the ecu as an alternative to the PWM map method though, but no-one a spoke to seems to have it working...

Sooo, I probably still 'have' to invest in an aftermarket ebc...when does it ever stop...?

70Turbobug March 4th 2010 13:47

I can imagine that tuning by that method is tedious,it might be easier to use a stand alone EBC even if you do decide to go with the PWM map method.The ECU I will be using also has an integrated boost controller that can be adjusted by the touchscreen pad display in the dash.These are all problems I still have to encounter,though.But i am looking forward to it! :D

Sandeep March 4th 2010 14:19

Thanks for the information Wally. I have an AEM Tru-boost currently, but was trying to decide to sell it or not. I will keep it and see how the S60 tuning goes.

Once the new heads and cam arrive, I can start building the motor ... still need to decide on a straight cut cam gear though.

Unfortunately, it never ends ... :eek:

Sandeep

paul_f March 4th 2010 14:53

I have a theory about how to setup these boost maps on the DTA that we are going to try on my friends beetle when he has it running again.

You really need a dyno to set it up, and a ignition cut set on the ECU at the highest boost you will ever want to run.

The tuning of the PID will only work if the target map is set to a real value that can actually be reached.

So the target map needs to be defined well. The way to do this is to disconnect completely the wastegate (which is why you need the boost ignition cut) and do a full load run logging the boost pressure against engine speed until you get to the max boost level.

From this log, you can then work out the actual maximum boost that the system can attain and this curve (or perhaps a little lower boost per engine speed) must be used on the DTA.

By doing this the actual PID will be able to work correctly as it is trying to control to a boost level that is actually attainable.

If you request a boost level that is not able to be obtained, the I term will wind up, causing massive instabilities in boost pressure when the engine speed reaches a level where the engine can meet the required boost.

Wally March 4th 2010 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_f (Post 74644)
I have a theory about how to setup these boost maps on the DTA that we are going to try on my friends beetle when he has it running again.

You really need a dyno to set it up, and a ignition cut set on the ECU at the highest boost you will ever want to run.

Paul,

Trust me, its no fun when you have set the overboost (your 'highest boost you will ever want to run') on 1,6 bar/24 psi and repeatingly the ecu cuts out your ignition violently at 1,6 bar (24 psi) whilst trying to run 18/20 psi.
Its either wastegate boost or overboost cut-out. The window is simply too small.

This turbo EASY goes to 2 bar/30 psi on my motor in just a few hundred rpm. It already overshoot to 1,8 bar/26 psi. Áll this is NOT funny I can assure you. How the engine has survived all the violent cut-outs still surprises me.
So, you see, getting an 'attainable boost' really is not my problem ;).

Quote:

The tuning of the PID will only work if the target map is set to a real value that can actually be reached.

I advice you keep the tru-boost for now Sandeep ;)
I really like DTA and it has one of the most advanced PID control algoritms on the market or so I understood, but personally I haven't seen anyone get i working properly, not even the professionals on the DTA-forum...

So, good luck Paul and let me know when you have succeeded, then I would really bow my head to you :rolleyes:

paul_f March 5th 2010 08:57

HI Wally,

I think you misunderstand me a little.

You only run this test once, and this is only to tell you how the boost rises against RPM.

At 4000rpm you can easily attain 1.6 bar, but at 1500rpm you will struggle to make 0.5bar, 2000 maybe 1 bar.

If you set the DTA demand curve at a higher boost pressure (ie 1,6 bar at 2000rpm) than the engine can attain then the controller will wind up, so then it is to slow to open the valve which causes the overboost.

With its single calibration for P I and D I doubt the DTA can be made to work to do everything. I personally would only initially use it to try to eliminate wastegate creep.

I don't know what makes it particularly advanced, but from the available calibrations it looks extremely simple to me.

For the PIDs I work with, we tend to have 10x10 maps with additional multiplication maps to make them work correctly.

If you have the means then a standalone boost controller would definately be an easier route with more likelyhood of success.

Wally March 5th 2010 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_f (Post 74659)
HI Wally,

I think you misunderstand me a little.

You only run this test once, and this is only to tell you how the boost rises against RPM.

At 4000rpm you can easily attain 1.6 bar, but at 1500rpm you will struggle to make 0.5bar, 2000 maybe 1 bar.

If you set the DTA demand curve at a higher boost pressure (ie 1,6 bar at 2000rpm) than the engine can attain then the controller will wind up, so then it is to slow to open the valve which causes the overboost.

.

Ah, yes, I misundestood :o
See your point now and I agree, after two years of trying, I think a aftermarket ebc would be best also.

Wally March 5th 2010 15:15

So, in absense of an ebc, I just deleted all settings and ran on wastegate today at our first trackday of the year. Its was COLD!
Track was partly covered in ice we we arrived early in the morning...
First session was a wet track, the 2 session afterwards were dry. Yesss!
Had great fun doing easy laps driving/learning the lines. New rear brakes bedded in nicely, but fronts still block first. Maybe also semi's up front as a next tire choice.
Still with the old struts, and the thicker rear torsion bars get my thumbs up! All in all a good test day :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq_m04LZreM

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...t.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...t.jpg~original

fahrvergnugen March 5th 2010 17:16

You've bin very busy Wally, well done:goodjob:

Wish my car was ready for track day's. Hope to drink some Hertog jan with ONN again this year.;)

Paul.

Wally March 5th 2010 17:24

Cheers Paul, me too!

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...g.jpg~original
Big tnx to Franc fo taking the pics in that cold winter day :)

volkdent March 5th 2010 18:22

You've made me jealous! I've got to wait till the end of this month to attack Laguna Seca. The bug won't be ready by then, but at least I can get on the track!

Looks like you had a lot of fun, are you thinking about adding dual master cylinders and a balance adjust feature?

Jason

Wally March 6th 2010 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by volkdent (Post 74682)
You've made me jealous! I've got to wait till the end of this month to attack Laguna Seca. The bug won't be ready by then, but at least I can get on the track!

Looks like you had a lot of fun, are you thinking about adding dual master cylinders and a balance adjust feature?

Jason

Driving on Leguna Seca would make me jealous Jason! ;)

Yeah, your right: dual masters and balance bar would be the best solution for me at this point. The installation however would involve things I rather don't like to do, so I'll try to postpone this decision...

Wally March 6th 2010 12:12

Hey Sandeep, Paul,

You guys won't believe this: I have the PID control working! :D:D:D

I do use a Volkswagen N75 boost control relais, so my settings will not automatically transport to other boost control relais, but if you also use the N75, lemme know, I'll mail you my settings in the S60 ;)

paul_f March 6th 2010 12:40

Excellent news!

The settings would be very useful.

Humble March 6th 2010 14:23

I'm an hour away from Laguna Seca, Jason you should stop by on your way down. It'll give you a chance to drive on my favorite roads :)

70Turbobug March 8th 2010 04:41

Hi Wally! Great video! You said you were running on the wastegate only? Still very fast..

Wally March 8th 2010 04:52

Thanks, well, yes on wastegate, but mind you, this is already 14.5 psi wastegate :D
Acceleration was very fast, but cornering speed was just so-so as I didn't want to take any chances ;)

Sandeep March 8th 2010 12:03

Great news about the PID and great video Wally !

My brother just bought a 2007 Audi RS4, so I have to keep up with that now, track day is scheduled for June 26th ! :eekno:

Looking forward to more incar video from you :D

Sandeep

effvee March 10th 2010 22:49

Heads work?
 
Walter, what head work have you done or had done? Very good results, congrats.

effvee March 10th 2010 22:50

Head work?
 
Walter, what head work have you done or had done? Very good results, congrats.

Wally March 11th 2010 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by effvee (Post 74765)
Walter, what head work have you done or had done? Very good results, congrats.

These are the 'old' heads from my former 2,7 and have 46x40 valves and some smart porting done to them, mostly based on airspeed, so not very large ports.
They are a 35 year old 914 2.0 casting and no welding was done.
In N/A form they flowed 220 hp...

Wally March 14th 2010 11:15

Today I have broken two (!) original type 4 8mm rockers during a dragrace meet...
Can't figure out how this could have happened, but no further damage was done to the engine: no bend pushrods, no bend valves. The latter really surprised me, as how the heck can these rockers break otherwise??

Whats wrong with this picture?:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...3.jpg~original

The weirdest thing: I exchanged the broken rockers for two 'new' ones and the engine started on 4 cylinders and has the same compression as before...
I am totally puzzeled how this could have happend, but count my blessings as the engine runs fine now again...pffft.

dub_crazee March 14th 2010 12:33

Bizarre!!! Glad there was no damage! Put any decent runs in before the damage?

Wally March 14th 2010 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by dub_crazee (Post 74812)
Bizarre!!! Glad there was no damage! Put any decent runs in before the damage?

Not really, it happened on the 2nd run. First run was a track-sensing 12.8/181km/h, but I had hoped for an 11-run this day...:(

michael86 March 14th 2010 14:51

Could it be a age related that the rockers broke.
The material getting brittle over the years.
I've never seen this before.

Glad it was only two rockers and no more damage.;)

Tiki

Humble March 14th 2010 15:27

That's really strange that it snapped off 2 rockers in the same fashion on the same cylinder. It's amazing there's nothing else wrong, you really lucked out :)

Wally March 14th 2010 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humble (Post 74816)
That's really strange that it snapped off 2 rockers in the same fashion on the same cylinder. It's amazing there's nothing else wrong, you really lucked out :)

Yeah, I did huh?

Might indeed be something like metal fatique Michael, but you would have thought this would have happened to others then too? Never seen it before and especially not at two on the same cylinder...
I am still very much puzzeled by the whole thing.

effvee March 14th 2010 21:42

What kind of springs
 
Better go back to basics. Seems like a lot of pressure on the nose of the rockers. What kind of spring pressure are you running? No spring coil binding? I would have thought your push rods would have bent before the rocker did that? Maybe have a very close look at the other springs for spring binding. This is pure luck that you did not damage this engine, very good luck:eek:

NO_H2O March 14th 2010 22:10

Scatching my head too. Glad you didn't hurt anything but the rockers.

owdlvr March 14th 2010 23:45

I guess the rest of your rockers are suspect now?

I wonder if a dye kit would help confirm the rest are good to use. http://www.indanc.com/flawfinder_layout_ink.php

-Dave


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