Draft of new club rules
 

I just spent a bunch of time typing in a nice post and lost it all. :banghead:

so i'm not doing it again.

Anyway, see below (it is a paste from a Word doc so excuse the formatting but i think it is legible) and shoot back any comments. There are still holes to be filled and key decisions to be made. Two things that need the most attention are naming the classes of cars (Class 1 and 2 are only there are placeholders) and determining dues and car membership rewards (shirts or what).

Keep in mind that we are trying to allow for people of all budgets and mechanical apptitude to fit within the rules while still trying to maintain some level of quality of what our interpretation of a GL car is and what we want VKG cars to be.

We will adopt it as soon as we feel the details are firm.
__________________________________________________ ____

VKG Club Rules/Benefits and Car Requirements

Club Rules and Benefits
Membership in the VKG is structured as membership for the person and a separate membership for your car as a VKG car. The breakdown is as follows:

VKG Member: Basic membership in the VKG is open to all. You may have a German Look car complete, under construction, in the planning stages, or no car at all and just want to hang out with GL junkies and you can be a VKGer. This allows for anyone to be part of the club. Any and all are welcome. $20 dues are paid annually.

With club membership you get a VKG membership dog tag keychain (exclusive “Charter Member” tag to the first 50 members), club sponsor discounts, and access to exclusive VKG merchandise and club newsletters.

VKG Class 1 Car: All German/Euro Look Air-Cooled Volkswagens (any year) that meet the minimum Class 1 points for each category as noted in the Car Requirements section. A $?? (thinking $20-40) one-time car membership dues payment is required.

With a Class 1 Car membership you also get a high quality VKG window/body sticker to identify your car as a VKG car and some kind of special promo item we need to define like t-shirt or something.

VKG Class 2 Car: All German/Euro Look Air-Cooled Volkswagens (any year) that meet the minimum Class 2 point for each category as noted in the Car Requirements section. A $?? (thinking $50-70) one-time car membership dues payment is required. A car being upgraded from a Class 1 car will be discounted.

With a Class 2 Car membership you also get a high quality VKG window/body sticker (or maybe we can do a badge) to identify your car as a VKG Class 2 car and some kind of special promo item we need to define like work shirt or custom jacket or something.

A car should not be shown as a VKG car (with any VKG stickering) until the requirements for the given class have been met.

We are predominantly a South Eastern US Club, but we are open to anyone that would like to join.

Car Requirements

The new VKG car requirements are based on a point scoring system to determine a car’s compliance to the VKG philosophy of well balanced upgrades through the car systems. This scoring system, while it may appear like a bit of overkill, will help the club ensure that all club cars are built to a standard of quality to better the car’s performance and safety as well as visual appearance.

The points scoring system is based on a minimum level of upgrades on the car in each of several categories. The bigger and better the upgrade, the more points it counts for. Having to meet a minimum score in each of all the categories prevents someone from just throwing some Porsche rims on a car and some carbon fiber accents and calling it a VKG car.

There is no overall score. You must meet the minimum score in each category. As you will see, it doesn’t take much to meet the minimums in each category to have a Class 1 car, but even these minimums across each and all categories will greatly improve a stock VW. To have a Class 2 car, you must meet the Class 2 minimum in all categories.

The list of upgrades can also serve as a reference of what options should be considered when you are considering how to improve your ride.

1. Engine: Open to all air or water cooled engines. Unlimited modifications allowed to engine to improve performance.
Scoring:
Modification/Upgrade Points
Aspiration:
Ported manifolds 1
Dual carbs 2
Fully-merged header 3
Non-stock exhaust 2
Turbo 5
Non-stock fuel injection 3
Cooling:
Engine:
911 cooling system 3
DTM-style cooling system 3
German sheet metal 1
Oil:
External oil cooler 2
Larger oil pump 2
Dry sump 3
Deep sump 1
Full flow 1
Clutch/PP/Fly:
Upgraded clutch 1
Upgraded pressure plate 1
Lightened Flywheel 1
Displacement:
Up to 10% increase in displacement over stock 1
11%-25% increase in displacement over stock 3
Over 25% increase in displacement over stock 5
Internals:
Nickies 4
Upgraded camshaft 2
Upgraded rods 2
Dynamic Balancing (complete reciprocating mass) 2
Heads:
Ported and Polished 3
Increased Intake and Exhaust ports 3
Solid rocker shafts 1
911 adjusters 1
Ignition:
CDI 3
Rev limiter 1
Bosch 009 Distributor 1
Pointless (non-optical) Distributor 2
Optical Distributor 3
Engine Swap:
Non-TIV to TIV 5
Other (WBX, Subaru, etc) 5

CLASS 1 MINIMUM SCORE: 5
CLASS 2 MINIMUM SCORE: 15


2. Transmission: Unlimited modifications allowed.
Scoring:
Modification/Upgrade Points
Freeway Flyer 3
901/915 trans 5
5-speed Berg 3
Other tranny 3
100mm CVs/T181 Flanges 1

CLASS 1 MINIMUM SCORE: 0
CLASS 2 MINIMUM SCORE: 3


3. Brakes: Unlimited modifications allowed.
Scoring:
Modification/Upgrade Points
Non-T3 to T3 drums 1
Ghia two pot front discs 2
Other two pot front discs 3
Four pot front discs 5
Ghia two pot rear discs 2
Other two pot rear discs 3
Four pot rear discs 5
Upgraded master cylinder 2
Stainless Steel soft brake lines 1
Vented rotors 2
Cross-drilled/slotted and vented rotors 3
Stock front or rear drums -1

CLASS 1 MINIMUM SCORE: 2
CLASS 2 MINIMUM SCORE: 4


4. Suspension: Car should be lowered front & rear. Unlimited modifications allowed to improve ride, handling & chassis strengthening.
Scoring:
Modification/Upgrade Points
Lowered front 2
Lowered rear 2
Front anti-roll bar 2
Rear anti-roll bar 3
Coil-overs (points per axle) 3
Performance shocks/struts/springs 1
IRS rear from swing 2
Aluminum trailing arms 3
Transmission brace (Kafer Cup style Brace) 4
Front strut brace 2
Narrowed beam 2
Narrowed arms 2




CLASS 1 MINIMUM SCORE: 5
CLASS 2 MINIMUM SCORE: 10


5. Wheels: 16” or larger Porsche or aftermarket wheels required with low profile performance tires. Only exceptions to this rule are 15” Porsche wheels, but the previous is strongly preferred to stay true to the look. No stock VW wheels or classic VW wheels (i.e. Empis or BRMs).
Scoring:
Modification/Upgrade Points
15” Porsche wheels 1
16” and larger wheels 3
3-piece wheels 5
High Performance tires (H or V rated) 1
Ultra High Performance tires (Y, W or Z rated) 3
Bolt pattern adapters (not spacers) Not permitted

CLASS 1 MINIMUM SCORE: 2
CLASS 2 MINIMUM SCORE: 4


6. Body: Body modifications should be functional & tastefully done and true to the style. Paint can be stock pallet or custom but should have a European influence.
Scoring:
Modification/Upgrade Points
Lexan windows – rear 2
Lexan windows – quarters 2
H4 or HID lighting 3
Third brake light 1
Custom paint color or scheme 4
Carbon fiber body panels or running boards 5
Non-stock mirrors 1
Single or 911 wiper conversion 2
Painted/Blacked Out trim 1
Shaved trim 2
Weight decrease of 1%-10% 1
Weight decrease of 11%-15% 3
Weight decrease of over 15% 5

CLASS 1 MINIMUM SCORE: 1
CLASS 2 MINIMUM SCORE: 5


7. Interior: Performance/Sport influenced (bolstered seats, sport wheel, upgraded shifter, etc), Race inspired (i.e., race seats, harnesses, roll cages, safety equipment & extra gauges), or stripped. No stock interiors.
Scoring:
Modification/Upgrade Points
Sport/Racing seats 3
Sport steering wheel 2
Upgraded shifter 1
No back seat 1
Roll cage 5
Harnesses 3
3-point seat belts 1
Fire extinguisher* 1
Extra gauges 2
Porsche gauge cluster 3
Carbon Fiber components 3

CLASS 1 MINIMUM SCORE: 3
CLASS 2 MINIMUM SCORE: 8


8. Theme: Overall theme of the vehicle should be consistent & carried through, from the inside out. Don't mix styles.

*MANDATORY items

Well it looks like I'm a class 2 car in the works. I like the rules and I really like the mandatory fire extinguisher, you can never be too safe.

I have gone over the new rules with Zen and I think that this will be a good format. I think it will keep our cars well balaced but a class 1 car should still be within the reach of most budgets. There was a saftey factor in mind as we started this system. A fire extinguisher was made manditory and a car with a 120 HP engine, no seat-belts and drum brakes is not very safe car(just 1 example). I'm sure there are some things that have been overlooked, so lets put our minds together and see what we come up with.

speaking of seatbelts, that is one thing i would like to change. we listed points for 3-point (which i don't feel could or should be mandatory due to early bugs and speedster kits that may want to stay with laps even though it is not preferred), but i do think there needs to be a zero point entry for any seat belts and make it mandatory.

I thought that only german water cooled engines were allowed. I guess that was one of the rules changed. :confused: A 300 hp wrx engine for 3K is calling my name. :laugh:


Oh yea. I didn't see any points for the 944 single piston non turbo brake upgrade.

that is one of the bigger proposed changes. doesn't mean that it won't change back, but we wanted to have it out there for feedback. personally, i am in support of the change. as long as the swap is a quality one (not having half the engine sticking out of the back of the body panels or a radiator strapped to the hood), i am fine with it. panelfantastic is evidence of what a clean swap is.

944 NA brakes would be covered under...

Other two pot front discs - 3

so 3 points for that one.

Thanks for the mention. :cool:
I didn't mean to start a revolution or push the club in a direction we didn't want to go. My allegiance definately does not hinge on acceptance of the unusual (crazy) choices on my bus. I support the club regardless of my "poor stepchild". I still have other GL projects brewing in my brain :D . I don't want the powerplant options to make anyone feel that we're losing sight of a true "German" look club, but sometimes options are good...as long as the general theme is maintained.


I vote at least lap seatbelts are mandatory. :eek:

I'm for manditory lap belts too. :agree:

One of the factors for a GL car is that it should have some "GO" along with its "SHOW". Yes a massive type 4 or a turbo type 1 would be an awesome engine but they aren't in everybodies budget. Why spend upwards of $7,000 for a well built 225hp type 4 when you can get a 227hp wrx engine (for example) for $3,000. If you want to go fast and don't want to pay for it through the nose then an engine swap is the answer. ;)

only a couple of responses so far, but of you guys...what about the name of the classes of cars and what do you think is fair to consider for one-time dues for entering the car for membership. the whole idea there is to recognize the effort put into the car to make it a true GL, ensure the quality of the cars being labelled as VKG cars, and to have some little special VKG type reward or recognition (even if it is really self-funded :rolleyes:).

so the dues should only be what it would take to cover the recognition award and a little extra to help fund events. hopefully we get the ball rolling on membership so we really even have money for events. so far we have just been able to cover promo stuff like the banner, stickers, MUAD award and dog tags (which are coming this week).

I think the dues are right on the money. :rolleyes:

Just pick the middle number. $30 for class 1 and $60 for class 2.

I really don't have a problem with the class 1 and class 2 names but they can be a little confusing since class 1 is normaly the better class. I think about them for a while and see what I can come up with.

I vote for Dave to come up with class "names" :D .

"cost plus a little extra". That should apply to all dues and expenses. We aren't talking about a lot of extra money and having that little extra to help at events and promote the club just makes sense.

As for the class names.

for the level 2 .... fast Komplett = nearly complete... since the level 2 cars pretty much have all the goodies on them already but eveybody here knows that your car is never done.

And for level 1...
Arbeit gerade beginnen = just starting work.
Eintragung = entry.


Just a few ideas... :)

i think the proposed rules are great. i have no problem with them .... except they tend to lean more to the porsche side of things.. :D .. but with the plans for my car , it will still be a class 2. so no harm no foul. keep the good ideas coming.

Me? .....:eek:

i don't think they lean towards Porsche too much. there was a concious (SP?) effort to make them neutral upgrades. certainly there are a few since they are a natural upgrade path, but i think they are pretty limited and we did include the "other" term in most categories as a catch all. let us know if you see anything in that area that needs to be addressed.

Yeees, your (name) kung fu is much more powerful than mine... :D
Although, boygenius is on the right track with his suggestions. I can't speak a word of it, but I like to see it incorporated in our "club speak".

I do not speak German, I only know enough German to order a beer (a few dif. kinds), maybe some food and some juice. But I dig the hell out of German beers, cars and food. I would also love another vacation there too.
I can give it a crack. I will see what I can think of.

Neither can I really even though I took 2 years of german in high school. The most I can do is figure out what the german websites are saying if there is no english selection. :(

Zen, the rules look good to me.

Sorry If I havent been around alot lately, but I have alot of shiat going on in my life right now. Plus my internet service has been down since Friday :mad:

New rules rule
 

Zen,
Everything sounds great to me. Got your message, wife erased it before I got a chance to note any particulars. Did remember a question about the email, it's zahriversz@hotmail.com. Thanks alot.

well we have heard from most of the regulars and there is not much to change. i think some more on class names as well. we are almost there.

Looks pretty good to me.

The only feedback I would interject is that the rules seem biased for Beetle upgrades. For instance a lot of high point changes cannot (or are not regular) be done on busses.

For instance aluminum 944 rear control arms, a bus is generally too narrow unless the fenders are flared, which in my book is not cool.

Narrowed front beam, not needed on a bus for big brakes.

I am blathering a bit here, but you get the point. Not trying to be a nudge, but hopefully showing a little different perspective from a bus guy. :)

As for the engines and drivetrain that all looks good.

Thanks,

good points. if you have some upgrades that you would like to see, throw them up here for consideration. i am hoping to finialize the rules in the next week or so.

If I may... I will admit at frist the new rules looked a bit confusing, but after i sat and thought about it. I do like them. They open the club up to more cars, and more budget minded people. The new rules show you don't have to go all out and spend a few thousand just to have a "german-look" car.

And a big thing that i see. the rules show, the budget minded GL owner, that the details matter, you can be in the club with out having BIG brakes, BIG engine, ect.. the rules give points for the minor improvements, and ideas. which helps if the car is your daily driver, you can't just make over the top changes that might not leave the car driveable for any number of days. also if you keep making minor improvements here and there, you can still have a German-Look car. I am also for the car dues, because that'll help generate more money for the club.

As for suggestions, I was a bit confused on class 1 and class 2, because you generaly think 1 is better than 2, but i caught on. And some cool names for the classes, sorry no suggestions, my high school didn't offer german :bawling: or i would have taken it.

I hope this helps. that's just what I think, sorry for the length, i'm very opinionated. :rolleyes:

Mike

good thoughts Mike. that is exactly what we were shooting for with the scoring system. trying to keep it realistic to different budgets. trying to keep it attainable for the beginner who maybe doesn't know how to do everything on his car (and provide a roadmap for upgrades to teach balance) and give room to grow for those who aim high and want to keep going. sounds like we are near the mark at least.

this approach also opened it up for anyone to join regardless of the state of their car. i think we have a win/win.

as for the class 1 and 2, they are just place holders, not ranking. but i think you got that.

In rereading and rereading the proposed new standards I can only nit-pick on area to be bus "unfriendly" and that would be the Suspension section.

Without major reconstruction (Like Panelfantastics's aka Jeff's) it is almost impossible to get a score of 10.

Heck I think I have done A LOT of rearend and suspension work to the old girl and it cannot get into the 10s.

Honestly I am not crying about it, but just trying to give insight that a nice split would almost never qualify for a class 2 unless radically changed suspension wise.

Maybe a dual set of rules for buses in this category?

Granted my bus is clearly a class 1 VW and will probably always stay that way since it fits my needs, but I do not want to see a new (or current) member(s) get discouraged if they cannot get into the class 2.

That is just my opinion though. Frankly the classes do not do much for me, as long as everyone is hard core GL and VKG it is all good just to hang out and BS VWs :)

Thanks,

Good points. I wasn't gonna raise any questions/comments since clearly the rules already have been bent to include me. It does need to be bus friendly though since several club members have blamed me for thier sudden "need" of a bus in the family :p :cool:.

maybe we could bump up the point value for some of the mods for bus only or early Bus only.

i think that is the best solution. dave and i had already talked about more points for mods that were harder on some vehicles. just hadn't thought of it specific to that. i will see what i can come up with.

and since that bus reference is to me :rolleyes:, i have a bus in the family now. not what i wanted or ultimately want, but one of those deals that could not be passed up. '84 Vanagon in great shape at a great price (1/3 what i was looking at for several panels in really rough shape). i view it as temp, but i'm sure i will be doing things to it anyway.

>'84 Vanagon in great shape at a great price <

Time for a Subie WRX conversion Zen :)

There are a few hardcore Vanagon conversion guys that hang out at www.vwvortex.com in the Transporter forums. Big brakes and Turbo twists kind of thing. Congrats!

A slid points scale for Bus stuff sounds like a good solution to me.

Take Care,

:D ...you're not alone, more than one person has been corrupted!

Okay, hadn't looked at these till today. I ran the numbers for the 912-6 :)

engine 26
tranny 5
brakes 10
suspension 15
wheels 6
body 5
interior 9

I still need to finish the body mods and the megasquirt injection system, then build the custome muffler system.

Too much fun.....

honestly, i hadn't even done mine since i knew i am outta control anyway. i just blasted through it so these may be slightly off...

Engine: 48
Tranny: 3
Brakes: 15
Suspension: 17 (includes not yet installed rear sway)
Wheels: 6
Body: 22-27 (not sure on weight yet)
Interior: 19

Total score (not that it applies in the rules): 130-135

told you i am outta control.

Here are the numbers on my GL in progress.


Engine = 12
transmission = 4
brakes = 12
suspension = 17
wheels = 6
body = 13
interior is not there. :laugh:

Mine will be.

Eng.-39

Trans.- 5 after the 901

Brakes- 4

Susp.- 10 now 14 after the Cup and strut braces go in.

Wheel/Tire - 4

Body - 13

Int.-16

If I figured right,
eng - 10
trans - 1
suspension - 14
brakes - 9
wheels - 6
body - 3
interior - 11

total - 54

i'm glad we are going through this excersize. panel's results bring a couple of things to mind. that is a hell of an engine swap. the idea behind these rules is to ensure balance on the vehicles upgrades and to grant points for hard but quality conversions. albeit we want the rules slightly air-cooled slanted, your engine is a quality job and will be a performer above par. which leads me to say i would view your conversion as a class 2 car all the way.

we have points for displacement increase, maybe additional points should be granted for HP and/or torque increases also. just one thought.

body is another area. again (even though i have only seen pics), i looks to be a class 2 job. nothing shabby about it from what i can tell. seems it should be more than 3 points. you have custom paint right? that is 4 points right there. i noticed we did not have any points for custom ducting. i think that is something to add.

you guys come across anything else worth addressing while going through this?

Thanks Zen. My project is so unique that it's definately unfair to add a bunch of "Jeff only" point awards...but the two you pointed out are very good examples of mods that transcend car or bus. Ducting is definately GL for looks and performance. The biggest selling point for me on the engine swap was the big hp numbers on a stock platform and is the main reason most go that route, so having that recognized would be great! (at least until the mods start on the Eco and I can get those points :D )

How about some points for chassis detail. :laugh:

I only wet sanded my chassis between coats of paint... both sides... :rolleyes: Just looking for some points.