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-   -   Mythbuster: continuing project thread of my 1303 '75 (https://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9953)

70Turbobug October 16th 2009 11:44

Fantastic reading! Great pics,great vids,great car and a great guy! The continuous improvements made to the car over the years is amazing.Keep the news coming Wally! All the best! Hopefully Ill see you at the track next year!

Mark

Sandeep October 16th 2009 12:40

Great looking (re) install :D. I would not worry about the closeness of the turbine to the outer CV as I have my turbo installed in the same location with no issues.

My exhaust pipe was actually 19mm away from the inner sidewall of the rear passenger tire and no problems after some hard runs and then sitting. The cooling airflow in that location is a bonus ;)

Looking forward to the upcoming performance reports :cool:

Sandeep

Sandeep October 16th 2009 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Turbobug (Post 71902)
Fantastic reading! Great pics,great vids,great car and a great guy! The continuous improvements made to the car over the years is amazing.Keep the news coming Wally! All the best! Hopefully Ill see you at the track next year!

Mark

Nice to "see" you here as well Mark :)

Sandeep

Wally October 16th 2009 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandeep (Post 71904)
Nice to "see" you here as well Mark :)

Sandeep

Ditto! although I dunno about that 'great guy' :lmao:
CU around Mark! And as a german, the - look should appeal to you :D

70Turbobug October 19th 2009 03:44

:lmao: Thanks guys - its good to be here! I was registered here before but I had forgotten my password and my nick aswell:o ....getting old I guess.
Its good to see that the GT3076 fits in that location.I have a GT3071R which is imho a little smaller in diameter at the compressor housing.Just waiting now for my parts to get back from balancing,then I can finally put the engine together.

Wally October 28th 2009 17:06

New turbo has been started and run for the first time! Whoaha! I like this turbo already :D
This was just on the internal wastegate without WI and without any additional tuning, but already is clear that this 50% more flowing turbo only gave a 100 rpm later spool to make 1 bar boost :cool:
Proof:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...g.jpg~original

It also holds its boost better and the internal wastegate doesn't creep (yet) as is shown by the steady boost line.
BTW: 200 MAP is 1 bar boost above ambient (=100). The wastegate boost goes on to about 1,15 bar boost (~17 psi).

kuleinc October 28th 2009 17:15

That is awesome, good job picking a better turbo out for minimal increase in lag!

70Turbobug October 28th 2009 23:41

Even without further tuning that is quite an improvement! My guess is that your intake temps are also lower due to the better effeiciency of this turbo.How much boost do you intend to run?

Wally October 29th 2009 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Turbobug (Post 72091)
Even without further tuning that is quite an improvement! My guess is that your intake temps are also lower due to the better effeiciency of this turbo.

Intake air temp is also in the graph: ' AIR' Its in Celcius and outside temp was about 12 degrees Celcius. IAT started at 14 Celcius and climbed to 18 Celcius during that WOT run. But I have a slow Bosch sensor and its probably not showing the fast increase accurately.
The info is all there in the log though ;)

EDIT: does everybody 'get' the log? (in what you see?). The log adds data and therefore puts new info at the left in front of what was already there, so you need to watch it in such that the car runs from the right hand side to the left. Boost and INJ% (= IDC) rise when I floor it and throttle gets over 90% (100%=WOT). The x-axis is in seconds (time), so the log part you see here is from about 7 minutes ago after I shut it down back home. /EDIT

Do you also see the IDC (injector duty cycle) climb to over 80% at the end of the run at about 6000 rpm? I am a little (too) rich maybe so a little gain in IDC room can probably be made, but I am running out of injector pretty soon (again...)
Quote:

How much boost do you intend to run?
I hope to get to 1,35 bar, which is about 20 psi.
But how much boost you can run is not always that decisive on making power: Case in point: I needed to take out a lot of timing with the smaller turbine of the IHI turbo (which choked on my engine I can now probably safely conclude).
Depending how much timing I can bring back (which is dancing with the devil as well), will determine more how much more power I will be able make. I f you can run a fair amount of boost AND you don't have to retard timing a lot, then that says something about the efficiency of the combo. At least, that is my experience so far ;)
I think I am going to make an apppointment with the dyno already :-))

70Turbobug October 29th 2009 10:54

Ahh now I see the air temp - thanks!

Quote:

then that says something about the efficiency of the combo.
That is the reason I was asking.Im anxious to see how much you can add without detonation.Myth has it,that a larger bore is more prone to detonation.So another myth to be busted! :D Inlet temp plays a key role for that,which also dictates how far you advance your timing and where in your rpm band your max boost will start.
What is the MB (Lambda?) and PM (Timing?) on the vertical line in the graph mean?

Sandeep October 29th 2009 11:22

Great to see the new turbo is working for you, and thanks for the clarification on how to read the logs.

I've copied the image to my desktop so I can review it in detail and then ask some questions :lmao: What size are your injectors again ? I'm now thinking my 57 LB/hr (599cc/min) are now too small :(

Sandeep

Wally October 29th 2009 12:46

Some of the abbriviations fell away because I put the line exactly in the spot where 1 bar boost has been reached, so you all could see what the sensors read there, especially the rpm, which makes a nice bridge tou your q.:
Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Turbobug (Post 72096)
What is the MB (Lambda?) and PM (Timing?) on the vertical line in the graph mean?

MB is the remnent of LAMB ;)
and PM the remains of RPM ;);)

so hopefully you now see that 202 (1,02 bar boost) is reached at 3535 RPM :D

Wally October 29th 2009 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandeep (Post 72098)
Great to see the new turbo is working for you, and thanks for the clarification on how to read the logs.

I've copied the image to my desktop so I can review it in detail and then ask some questions :lmao: What size are your injectors again ? I'm now thinking my 57 LB/hr (599cc/min) are now too small :(

Sandeep

Your very welcome to it :)
I now run the 60 or 63 lbs Siemens injectors. Said to be 660 cc/min at 3 bar or 45psi fuelpressure, but I have upped the fuel press. in the meantime to 3,5 bar.

Rolling road dyno is booked for saturday morning early. Little bit too soon, but later wasn't possible or too late for me...
I hope I can get the boost regulation dialed in again on time and tune for it. Will be stressed for time, but very curieus what she will do on the dyno.

BTW If you indeed study the plot closely, you can see that at around 5800-6000 rpm, the lambda gets a little higher for half a second and that the closed-loop immediately corrects this by adding fuel, which makes the IDC go up there at almost that same very instant! The Bosch/Innovate are very quick to react and the DTA closed loop function does too. It all shows in that very spot. I have now added some more lambda filter, so that will smoothen the curve a bit more I hope and relex the closed loop corrections a bit ;-)

Wally October 31st 2009 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Turbobug (Post 72096)
Myth has it,that a larger bore is more prone to detonation.So another myth to be busted! :D

I guess I busted that myth too then :D

Result: 350 hp! at 6500 rpm with close to 300 hp at the rear wheels :D:D:D

Torque: max at 420Nm or 310 ft.lbs at 5200 rpm.

I fiddled somewhat with fuel correction and look what I did in the other run, but up top we made some gains (just 10 hp):

Flywheel hp and torque of both runs:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...24okt09005.jpg

Rear wheel hp:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...24okt09007.jpg

Wally October 31st 2009 10:11

Video of the run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nljeNyH07Cs


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