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-   -   Mythbuster: continuing project thread of my 1303 '75 (https://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9953)

Wally April 13th 2009 13:52

Mythbuster: continuing project thread of my 1303 '75
 
I thought it was best to keep a sort of project thread/blog-like posting of the updates on my german-style 1303 from model year '75.

It all started in 1991, when I wanted an original '75 model 1303, registered for the first time in my country, the Netherlands. Not many have been delivered from that model year over here: only 32 !

Upon arrival:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...1.jpg~original

I'll save you all 'the bad' pics, but it was very, very rotten. Largeluy due to the original sun-roof:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...6.jpg~original

Drill-out all bad parts :
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...4.jpg~original
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...5.jpg~original

and replace with new. Also added some sill and chassis strength:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...4.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...8.jpg~original

NO_H2O April 13th 2009 19:10

I would like to do a 75 1303 someday. I have always liked the idea of a sunroof, sedan with r/p steering. Looks like you have carved that one down to the bone.

wrenchnride247 April 13th 2009 21:22

Cool history Wally. :)

ricola April 14th 2009 04:09

I had a browse of your photobucket folder the other week when I was getting withdrawal symptoms, was a serious resto you did there!
Rich

Wally April 14th 2009 04:15

It has been a 9 year restoration process before she was taxed and inspected again...
Of course I also made the 944-Cup suspension under there in that period and had to figure it out all by myself as when (1994) I did the entire suspension mod, nobody I knew of had done that (alu trailing arms and Cup-spindles) before.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...6.jpg~original

'After' pics:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...4.jpg~original

Also moving house, which also meant moving the car from the farmers barn to the garage I first had to build myself behind the 'new' house back then (1998):

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...5.jpg~original

Finally, first time out, painted and on its own wheels (early 2000):
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...7.jpg~original

Gotta love the scanner :)

Wally April 14th 2009 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricola (Post 68817)
I had a browse of your photobucket folder the other week when I was getting withdrawal symptoms, was a serious resto you did there!
Rich

Yes, you can say that for sure! Glad the resto is long behind me, but every now and then I am so glad I did it right back then.

So, first were the 16" rims from a 993 '94 model, then came the 17" BBS rims:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...l.jpg~original

and of course the current 18" :
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...8.jpg~original

wrenchnride247 April 14th 2009 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally (Post 68819)

Finally, first time out, painted and on its own wheels (early 2000):
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...7.jpg~original

Gotta love the scanner :)

Man! I didn't know you had 993's on your's before... that's what I'm running. Look's like it's going to be 9 years for mine to be on the road too (4 years and counting)

Humble April 15th 2009 00:06

Wow, great progress pics. I don't think I could have finished restoring a pan and shell in such bad condition. I can barely finish the one I have in good condition :lmao:

Wally April 15th 2009 17:02

Hey, the Stig has arrived :D
yeah, I agree, you'd have to be pretty motivated to work in a half-open shed and get there after work and keep going till late at night, then peddle back home...:rolleyes:

Anyways, the reason its called 'Mythbuster' is because all the myths about parts that would not work have been busted so many times, I lost count.
Then of course the familiar 'type 4's can't dragrace'; the '915 transmission are not suited for fast shifting', let alone be used in dragracing; the 1303's (supers) cannot dragrace and 'you cannot turbo a type 4' myths.. :D
All busted.
The next one is of a well respected GL builder and type 4 specialist in germany that said you can't run high compression ratios with the Oettinger alu cylinder. Busted. Putting a turbo on them would be witchcraft, but is exactly what I am doing. Worse: its a 103 bore with stock, non-welded heads.
Some say...they will leak n/a, let alone with boost, if the cylinder wall doesn't collapse first.
Those two are going to be busted pretty soon too I hope ;)

Speaking of which:
The turbo engine is almost ready. It already ran, but I didn't seal one of the plugs behind the flywheel, so I have some work ahead of me.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...0.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...1.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...8.jpg~original

I hope I can post a clip of it running leak-free soon!

typ4boy April 16th 2009 05:54

That 911 fan will never work........











:lmao::lmao::lmao:;)

Wally April 16th 2009 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by typ4boy (Post 68896)
That 911 fan will never work........

Yeah, almost forget that one.
Also: it will rob a lot of power. Dyno showed otherwise...
Also: the horizontal fan will throw its belt... never happend ;)

Sandeep April 16th 2009 09:15

Awesome pics Walter .... especially the ones dealing with your restoration. Just the motivation I need to continue with my rustoration :D

Looking forward to your video of the running motor and some dyno sheets :eek:

Sandeep

Wally April 17th 2009 16:23

Thanks Sandeep!
I did deliberately put those horror pics up just for those how still have to do all the hard work and show you that my bug was once a 'basket case' too ;)

Especially for you I made a small vid of the first (well, second) start of the 2,2 turbo engine, partly finished. Its nothing special and one of many on yourtube of "I started my engine for the first time, hurrey" :lmao:
But you asked for it :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EANvmzSAqLc

To run her in, I did something 'terrible' and drove straight to the track day that was today :rolleyes:
It really was the first time the car stood on its own wheels for almost 3/4 of a year and the first time I could try-out the new gearbox (G50).
Let me tell you, the G50 shifts beautifully! Very light and easy. Bit long, but its a factory shifter after all.
Engine still had an oil leak behind the flywheel, although last night it seemed leak-free...probably therefore the clutch slipped some when the turbo cam in a bit sudden, but on the track today we (Marius has the blue oval with a tuned type 4 2.0 n/a engine) surprised many cars with our little bugs.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...6.jpg~original

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...3.jpg~original
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...4.jpg~original

oasis April 17th 2009 22:37

Great thread. I always loved your cars. Nice to get an education along with it, too! ... plus I finally get to see the pics (work computer rejects sites like photobucket). Thanks!

Sandeep April 17th 2009 23:05

The engine sounds mean ! How does the drive compare to the old 2.0 with the 915 ? With the bigger displacement, you should have more torque to turn the gears for the G50 (but you knew that already ) :p

Datalogs from the S60 ? :D How about some track video ?!?! I should really be working on my car instead of spending time on the computer ....

Sandeep

kuleinc April 17th 2009 23:25

I love your car...

Wally April 18th 2009 03:53

Thanks Oasis, Kulein ;)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandeep (Post 68964)
The engine sounds mean ! How does the drive compare to the old 2.0 with the 915 ? With the bigger displacement, you should have more torque to turn the gears for the G50 (but you knew that already ) :p

First impression is that the cam may be a little large for this combo. I have more duration (163) and 114LC than the turbo webcam 119. Throttle respons with the stock cam was better still, but it does come in much harder when you fully depress the throttle, even at only 7 psi boost I had set it on.
Unfortunately then the clutch slips from the oil leak behind the flywheel, so the engine must come out again. Very frustrating...
The cam is therefore difficult to judge by now, but large LCīs may give less cylinder pressure and I am not sure if that is good yet. Like I noticed on STF, webcam has decreaed the LCīs of the Web 119... maybe they or their customers didnīt like the negatives over the advantages of running large LCīs... Thinking out loud, maybe large LCīs are better for engines that run high CR on turbo engines...
But maybe weīre going too deep here ;)

The CHTīs were very good btw. Nr. 3 showed just a tad over 350F when it was full boost hauling down the straight at the track. Oil didnīt even get over 85 degrees Celcius after half an hour full racing (I didnīt really spare the motor...).
Quote:

Datalogs from the S60 ? :D How about some track video ?!?! I should really be working on my car instead of spending time on the computer ....

Sandeep
hey, you overasking here! Well, actually somebody (hey white german girl :p) promised to come and tape the track day, but she didnīt show up... :rolleyes:
Datalogs were boring again (IAT 21 degrees Celcius at a 15 degree day..) and I still havnīt been able to save a log while at the track. Since data is gathered continiously and I drove 2 hours back fron the track, previous data is autonmatically deleted. There is a on-off switch to be made, but I still havnīt gotton to that.
Long story short, nothing to show you ...:o You īll have to take my word for it ;)

typ4boy April 18th 2009 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally (Post 68899)
Yeah, almost forget that one.
Also: it will rob a lot of power. Dyno showed otherwise...
Also: the horizontal fan will throw its belt... never happend ;)

Wally, the myth buster.:lmao::lmao:;)

Wally April 18th 2009 07:41

This is what a track day does if your having fun...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

(the curved exhaust exit is because of noise restrictions...)

Wally April 20th 2009 17:07

You won't believe this...

I have a slight clutch slipping problem if the turbo came in hard (and it was only 7 psi) on the track last friday.
Pulled the engine (again...) and found a dry bell housing behind the flywheel. :confused:

So I looked at the clutch disk more closely:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

Indeed: the springs hit the flywheel and caused some part/not-engaging on one side...
I probably got punished for using a VW disk with a G50 center which also gives the G50 springs (?) (although Kennedy should have known this too I suppose)....who else is crazy enough to try this huh?
Problem probably easily solved by turning down the inner part of the flywheel a bit to clear the height

Clatter April 21st 2009 02:54

Quote:

Pulled the engine (again...) and found a dry bell housing behind the flywheel
WhooHoo! It's not a leaking cam plug!
(Or anything else that requires a complete engine teardown)

Wally April 21st 2009 10:22

My thoughts exactly!

petevw April 22nd 2009 02:40

:eek: Still can't believe it looked like this:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...4.jpg~original

Good work Wally!

kuleinc April 22nd 2009 21:26

I can, cause mines been replaced from the windshield forward by PO, and both sections right below the "antenna" area are already getting rust wholes again, so I'm RIGHT ABOUT where wally was in that pic, except I haven't gotten mine apart yet...

Guess I should learn to weld and get a welder, seems worth it, I had pondered getting another body...

Wally April 30th 2009 17:38

Finally, the engine and tranny are holding their fluids where they belong. After all was tried, the O-ring seal from the tranny needed to be replaced and one of the rear bellhousing plugs on the engine wasn't sealing...

But its all good now and boy, it is fun to drive again with the boost turned up a bit more :D It was only 7 psi at the track day and now with new oil, heads retorqued, valves adjusted and rings that have very probably seated (engine doesn't smoke at all), I tuned the PWM valve to give about 10-11 psi.
I am sure this engine will run over 6K and still make more power, at least that how it feels like.
It sure is scary though to feel/hear/see the boost come on when you're running a new engine. Today was a bank holiday over here and tomorrow everybody took the day off, so me too.
Got some more test 'n tune to carry out :driving:

Wally May 2nd 2009 13:41

Today I tried to get a bit above 10 psi, but the clutch is saying: "enough is enough, I am not transmitting more torque..." :(
Slipping at anything above 0,8 bar and you can smell it as well.
I will probably need to phone Kennedy on monday...

ricola May 2nd 2009 14:09

Let's face it, that's far from the worst problem you could have! :D

Wally May 2nd 2009 15:01

True, but I really was hoping to have the engine INSIDE the bug a bit longer this time...;)

A friend suggested a dual organic disk and floater plate set-up. Hope KEP makes that for my weird combo.

ferfre007 May 4th 2009 22:08

saludos desde Paraguay!!
 
se nota que se trabajo de cero!! tiene un hermoso motor tipo4!!! excelente!!

Wally May 5th 2009 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferfre007 (Post 69353)
....motor tipo4!!! excelente!!

That part I understand :)

Gracias!

ferfre007 May 8th 2009 23:05

saludos desde Paraguay!!
 
One notices that you have donates to good work, doing these of zero!!!

Wally May 16th 2009 08:37

Made a vacuum/boost box for all the pressure lines to connect to instead of all the 'T'- connections in the lines I had up untll now.
I hope it gives a better boost signal this way, which is important for the MAP sensor, fuel pressure regulator and also for the BOV.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...3.jpg~original

In the meantime, I have a 6-puck spring centered on the way from KEP (dual disk is a bit too much $$ for me at this moment) and the flywheel and pressure plate have been machined flat again. To get the diafragma fingers 'straight' (general consensus being that that is when the most torque can be transmitted), we had to machine the outer edge of the flywheel (where the pressure plate resides onto) some 1.5mm deeper than stock.
The ratio of machining depth to fingers moving is approx. 1,5 to 1.
So, 1.0 mm machining gave about 1.5mm finger movement with this pressure plate. Never thought it needed to be that much. I hope it works out as I have anticipated.
The 6-puck is equally thick as the organic one KEP said (8.0mm), so I hope it gets here on time so I can use it next saturday on our first local drag race meet of this year.

Steve C May 16th 2009 09:22

Hi Wally

Looking good.

A few people I know ran boost boxes and things didn't work as well as would be expected, the extra volume slowed reaction to everything connected to it.

Where do you take your signal for your wastegate from? Been told by serious turbo tuners to take it after the throttle plate, that way it reacts to actual motor pressure not the pressure in the between the turbo & throttle plate.

Wally May 16th 2009 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve C (Post 69622)
Hi Wally

Looking good.

A few people I know ran boost boxes and things didn't work as well as would be expected, the extra volume slowed reaction to everything connected to it.

Well, I sure don't hope so; this seemed like the proper way to do it...
Quote:

Where do you take your signal for your wastegate from? Been told by serious turbo tuners to take it after the throttle plate, that way it reacts to actual motor pressure not the pressure in the between the turbo & throttle plate.
I use the original pipe on the turbo itself for this. OEM its connected like this as well with the original internal waste-gate close by. Why would OEM do it that way if its better to connect WG under the throttle plate?
I would be happy to redirect, but its the first time I learn of this.

Thanks Steve,
Walter

petevw May 16th 2009 11:41

Wally, ever try a solid center clutch disk?

Pete

Wally May 16th 2009 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by petevw (Post 69624)
Wally, ever try a solid center clutch disk?

Pete

Nope, not even ever any semi-metallic pad...

Wally May 18th 2009 16:39

While waiting for the disk to arrive, I cut some polycarbonate ('lexan') sheets for the side windows.
I thought they were lighter than the 1,5kg I saved per side window (2,45 to 0,95kg), but its weight up high, so it will benefit more in the corners I suppose.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

Wally May 21st 2009 10:50

As the 6-puck has not arrived yet and I need to run on sunday, I have reinstalled the old organic disk. Flywheel has been resurfaced and machined down so the pressure plate now has some more pre-load. Fingers are now perfectly horizontal. This should give some better holding power by itself and it did :D
Boost has again been tuned to 14.5 psi and oh boy what a rush once 3000 rpm gets passed :eek: :D

From the datalog I could see that at about 2850 rpm there is 0.5 bar or 7 psi boost and at 3500 rpm the full 14.5 psi is reached. The engine easily runs up towards 7000 rpm, but I want to stay before that for a little bit longer as I am not sure where max hp will be.
Coming saturday there is a local mobile rolling road dyno (more or less just across the street for me) so I will try to enter the car there.

I only ran the full boost in 2nd and 3rd as to not risk a premature clutch burn-out but that went well. So fingers crossed for saturday when the dyno run will be done in 4th.

Very curieus what it will get, providing the clutch holds :rolleyes:.

chug_A_bug May 21st 2009 11:15

PLEASE TAKE VIDEO....:D

Chris.

Sandeep May 21st 2009 12:51

I'm going to guess ~340ish HP at the F/W, ~290ish HP at the wheels :eek:

My 6 puk solid centre with Kennedy STG2 PP is rated to hold 341 ftlbs of torque. I'm not sure if Wally's clutch is up to the task though .... :D

Good Luck !!

Sandeep


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