Hydraulic throwout bearing type 1 IRS box
 

Does anyone have any experience of hydraulic throwout bearings fitted to modern cars that could be retro fitted to a type 1 IRS box?

I'm in the UK so need info on European cars.

I plan in the not to distant future to convert to hydraulic but don't like the CNC pull type slave cylinders, plus the TO bearings neater & eliminates the need for a HD cross shaft etc.

Thanks
Paul

Hello Paul

I'm also in the process of finding a solution like this, I already have some used ones from BMW, Ford etc to see what fits best. As soon as I have some news I'll let you know with photos etc

Friendly

Dimitrios

Hello Dimitrios,

Thanks, I look forward to your results.

Hi

Saab make one but it maybe a little to deep to fit in a Type 1 bell housing.

Steve

have a look into the hewland gearboxes, most of them have a hydralic throwout bearing. if you have a late style box then you can get a bearing that bolts onto the 3 bolt holes that are used to hold the support shaft. think tilton do them along with a few others.

https://www.burtonpower.com/prod_fil...=70014&PSet=98

Found these on a Ford racing specialist website (UK).

The hard-copy catalogue mentioned that the hydraulic clutch cylinder nose (APC5) has overall depth 80mm from bearing face to mounting face and safe travel of 22mm. It also mentioned that several customers have successfully fabricated their own mounts on gearboxes other than Ford units. Not sure if this can be modified to fit late style T1 gearbox.

As discussed on Volkszone I have one on the way with a throw of c.18mm. I looked at the AP ones and went for the one i did for testing purposes currently.

The burton one looks like a standard Ford one, but the top one mounted onto a piece of billet.

Results will follow...

Interesting stuff guys, keep it coming & thanks.

Anyone know the travel on the VW TO bearing?

Hello Paul

I'm work in the same solution to type 1 trans. The problem with the stage 2 or 3 clutch more stronger and blow the hydraulic throwout bearings. :shocked:
if you have stage one try opel vectra 16V.


i'm work to develop one with external truck cylinder to stage 2 ore more,
My room have one collection... :D
Luis

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

Hello Luis,

That's one to look for, thanks. I will have the stage 1 clutch.
Any chance you can post that picture of it fitted that is on your laptop?

Paul

That would help greatly.

Now that the toss seller has got it posted it should be moving along swimmingly.

Al

hmmm... Presumably we have the same TOB here Luis?...

Pic from SteveC on Aussie Veedubbers

http://www.clubvw.org.au/images/G50_hc.1.jpg~original

http://www.clubvw.org.au/images/G50_hc.jpg~original

There is also a thread on Volkszone about this...

And pics of what I've just had delivered. Best pics of the dimensions that I can get as I don't have the micrometer down with me. Note that this one doesn't have a sleeve around it, because its a cheap most likely, but if you are willing to pay the money you can get them with the bellows.


http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...9.jpg~original

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...0.jpg~original

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...1.jpg~original

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...3.jpg~original

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...4.jpg~original

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...6.jpg~original

Nice pix Al, do you know what thats off?

Do the mounting holes match the VW sleeve holes?

I guess you will tell more once you have had a look at a gearbox

After studying you pix a little closer I see GM on there, whats the number stamped on it?

Its a GM 55557587 from Saabs with the 1.9 TiD plus assorted other GMs

It matches up with a 16mm master cylinder which opens plenty of options for different mounting types.

As for bolt patterns and the bearing face, I'm nowhere near either so can't look right now. If anyone has a release bearing handy and the sleeve from the gearbox that'd be great. Otherwise I'll have to get the old man to have a look tomorrow :)

Presumably it'll bolt up if Luis' is the same but its whether it'll mate up to the clutch face

Part number GM 90 523 765. ;)

Height 63mm
Height pressed 52mm (Correct 39mm)
Width 67mm
Base center center screw 63mm


http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/w...5.jpg~original
http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/w...2.jpg~original

I'm work on new adapter base to this solution, you see on the laptop. (center up lap. display)
But only for little clutch, imagine, blow and need remove engine...

Not the bolt on solution we were looking for then!

Maybe worth investigating some more bearings or some kind of adapter plate...

Unless SteveC knows something that we don't?

I'm not too bothered cause I got this for a song and can sell it on.

OK I've been in the garage retrieving the sleeve from an old box..

By my great powers of measurement I get the PCD of the mount holes to 54mm & the holes are equidistant

Diameter of the input shaft is 20mm at the widest

Length of the sleeve is 60mm

I have a car under wraps (from the weather) with the engine out but the bearing still on, so I could get someone to press the pedal & I can measure the travel of the bearing.
I just have to get the time to unwrap it. cant do so until next week.

An adaptor looks the way to go and easy enough to get made

Thinking economies of scale?

The measurement might give some good indications of what needs to be done in terms of depth and throw BUT how do we measure how much is actuation of the clutch, presumably if we can get the full movement range then it'll be good?

If you do get a chance, measure the bearing too for diameter.

:)

Hi

I bought to fit in a G50 but in the end I decided to stick with the G50 mechanism.

Steve

Did think this after reading. Still liking the idea and will be looking more at an adapter, it is a far superior system

This might be something to have a look at:

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...asp?RecID=4625

I'm considering it for my Webster Mk dogbox

Its the price that puts me off... Skill the beating I have ansa an adapter for say 10 to 20 quid will do.

My bearing was incredibly cheap, I'm all about making solutions cheaper where possible and that is far too expensive for what is going to be a daily not a full blown race car.

An adaptor looks likley to convert a mainstream bearing to our gearboxes. Looking at whats posted up so far, they will be too tall, so we need a short one where an adaptor brings it to the required length but with enough travel to activate the clutch plate.

I have another box here at work and the TO bearing sits at rest 40mm off the casing and travels 20mm before starting to fall off the end of the sleeve.
So that gives us maximum travel at least with the whole assembly 40mm max height with the adaptor. Although that does not mean it takes 20mm to activate the clutch.

al_kaholik

i'm sorry for the quality because take the picture and press the slave it so hard.... :p
is more shorter than I specified previously. (pressed 39mm)

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/w.../IMAGE_872.jpg
http://s712.photobucket.com/albums/w...MAGE_878-1.jpg
http://s712.photobucket.com/albums/w.../IMAGE_875.jpg
http://s712.photobucket.com/albums/w.../IMAGE_874.jpg
http://s712.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/BB_009-7.jpg
:cool:

Keep meaning to look at the pics when I get home!

Thanks for posting them up

It needs to be about 40 mm at rest though including the adaptor plate.

Im reluctantly going to order the CNC/Willwood slave cylinder & set that up with a master cylinder along side the brake MC up front.

check this out: they seem to have a bolt-on solution:
http://www.lmb-technik.de/produkte.html

Thanks Xellex, but thats for the 901 gearbox :(

Was about to get on that too. Shame really - looks identical to the TOB both I and Luismj have. Some interesting things on their site though

Gents, we need to pool some info.

Also how thick do our adapter plates need realistically to be? And how are we sealing to the bell housing face - can we go as far as clearancing this a bit and using a different seal or indeed the rear of the slave cylinder.

Ive been chatting to a guy at Sachs about one.

Its a VAG 1.9TDi part that will require some mods, but it is

~40mm pressed total height, ~33mm to the mounting face
~60mm extended total, ~53mm to mounting face
single pipe to feed/bleed
60mm OD bearing face
PCD of mountings ~85mm

I have some nice spec/pictures too which is very useful.

Luis, is it possible to get those sort of specs from yours?

Back on with this a little. After viewing this thread after some crafty Googling http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/vie...r=asc&start=38 I've seen that the old seal used to be much thinner than the new 13mm one. This gives an extra couple of millimetres that can be shaved from the mounting face. That might be enough to slip in an adapter plate and retain the proper clutch actuation distance as measured on the beetle box.

The replacement seal that I've been eyeing is 22x40x8 with a twin lip http://www.bearing-king.co.uk/bearin...0-x-7-r23/8798 and at only 7mm thick means that there is potentially nearly half of the boss area that can be milled away. This seal appears to be from a Yamaha bike front wheel. But so long as it does the job I'm happy.

A seal and exploration of a scrap gearbox case will have to wait, but it does look promising


That is of course unless someone is feeling very flush http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Butee-embraya...item461a6e906b... €450 is a little too much for me

And this is the slave that is needed http://www.neobrothers.co.uk/clutch-...44d9a65acea94e Saab 900, possibly won't need an adapter, but not 100% sure on this, need to get my hands on one

I got one of those Passat throw-outs like Wally used,
but chickened out on using it on my 923.
But only after cutting it, of course...
You can have it if you are going to actually use the thing and post the results up.
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1160701.jpg
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1160697.jpg

Thanks for the offer, I have one in a similar state in the garage! Think mine is a Sachs though... I also have a Saab 9-3 one which is too tall.

I specifically need the Saab 900 one, that is as close to what I can see and have read is correct, I'll probably get one from God or ESP, measure it and take it back or get one for when I'm next home to trial fit and do the same. I know I can get one for £44 posted but I'll have to pay to return it if it all goes wrong. Crafty.

But certainly a step closer. MC wise I'm thinking of changing what I have to a BMW one which is more compact for in tunnel mounting.