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Old April 13th 2019, 10:59
Clatter Clatter is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 117
Yes, TOS = That Other Site.
My build thread there has deteriorated into a 120-page lifestyle/travel/blog that's now discussing nuances of French grammar, but if you want to look, there's a few pics and some info buried in there somewhere..
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/vi...c.php?t=581759


In doing the 915 (actually 923) conversion,
I learned a few details of the VW type 3 you might find interesting.
(Or that, more likely, you already know all about, but humor me)



First of all, VW made the type 3 to be their premier luxury car of the time,
Choosing to isolate the running gear from the shell itself with rubber.
This means those big rubber beam mount thingies on the beam in front,
And five rubber donut mounts for a separate removeable sub-frame in the rear.
Many building a high-power car will solid-mount the rear sub to the body for obvious reasons, the biggest being that the rubber-mounted sub is notorious for causing wheel-hop on hard launches.
T3Detectives in the UK sold these solid mounts, and someone on TOS was selling them as well.
Not sure if you can get them anymore..
Some used aluminum, others Delrin, but they would be easy enough to whip up on a lathe.
Others have chosen to section in a beetle rear sub..
FWIW, since mine is a road/GT type of deal, I decided to make my own rubber mountings for the sub.

ANyways,
Even with a feeble stock motor, VW did a few things to strengthen the rear subframe, mostly for use in the squareback, due to it's heavier loads.
Here's an early square subframe; early swing type 3s had horns like a beetle.
This big squared-off brace runs the width of the torsion tube on square subs only, reportedly.


Later subs, with no horns, on the square, you will see these little corner gussets at the ends of the tube.


Here's a shot of an early and a late sub, and the start of mocking up my 915 kit from bug@5-speed.
I chose to do horns and rear hanger bar both, because I was staying all rubber mount and needed all the support I could get.
You'll likely not even bother with horns.


Because VWs get especially tail-heavy with bigger motors, we all want to move the drive train forward if possible.

I did get a couple mm forward, but that's it. The torsion tube at the center got ground as thin as I dared, and with the thin nose cone, that was it.
Because your G50 is so huge, you'll need to 'tunnel' right up thru the front of the sub area, and that likely means eliminating the torsion bars altogether.
Because the type 3 sub has mounts at the top of the rear shock towers,
It might just mean that they will take the loads better than a beetle, good for coil-overs,
however, watch out for their strength, as they are fabbed from sheet, not castings like a bug.
I stitch-welded the perimeter of the sub to help with this FWIW..


Something else to notice on the above pic is the little 'cups' on the top of the shock towers.
Those were on later cars only, far as I can tell. They were to help locate the rubber mounts at the top of the sub. Something to note, depending upon if you keep rubber mounts, or if you run coil-overs, or..?


OK, on to the front mount.. You will likely completely remove this entire area of your car, and move the motor like five inches forward, right?
Maybe also raise the drive train an inch or two while you're at it?

Either way, the shift rod on a P-car has to go right up through where this circle is drawn. Your circle will likely have to be about a foot in diameter?




If you dig around in my build thread there are a bunch of pics of how I tunneled thru the front sub mount, and used four factory torsion tube mounts on the side of the tunnel,
The pan gets modified, build a house under the rear seat, etc. etc.
But I'm guessing you will be solid-mounted, and the front of your trans will not only be different, but way farther forward.. so we'll skip that whole part..
My own build thread is too big for me to even dig thru..

The shifter is offset to the driver's side in a type 3.
Additionally, there is an elevation change front-to-rear.
I solved both of these issues by using these sealed steering u-joints I got from Summit or Jegs or someplace.
That also means you'll need another shift rod bushing in the tunnel, so it doesn't just deflect..


If you really want to build a sleeper, best to tuck the wheels, right?
So,
Holy grail is a narrowed sub.
WAY more involved than a Beetle!
Cut me apart a parts car before just deciding it was all way too much..
(top of the shock mount area! )
However,
In hindsight,
The bottom of the 'load floor' area above the trans is double-walled.
BUT
it is only tacked/spot-welded in place.
If you get under there and remove that kind of 'false' lower load floor,
You will have a view of all the stampings and their construction.

Once you see them all, you'll understand why this is something I'm saying..

And, yes, I did actually see a type 3 with a torsion raise once,
But it was a patina/lowrider hack like you see everywhere these days, unfortunately.

Anyways,
Hope that these pics give you some info about what the parts look like under there, and what you're up against.

There's only like three or four type 3s with 5-speeds on the Internet,
And for good reason!

Last edited by Clatter; April 13th 2019 at 11:16. Reason: Damn pics way too big! Can't seem to fix. Whatever.. Sorry.
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