An $8,000 Question

[Bad bug]

I am only going to say this once,for you to build what is know as a reliable t1 engine you will have to buy parts along the line of autocraft ( expensive ) , gene berg ( expensive ), pauter ( expensive ). What jake is saying is that a t4 2ltr engine can be built from 2.0l to 2.4ltr using the stock crank and be very reliable. Elroocky on this forum ran a 2.4ltr t4 motor in races for 8 years now that motor is in a daily driven bug he says not once have they pulled the block. Jake has taken a 1.7ltr t4 motor and turned it into a 3.0 monster.

[vujade]

Originally Posted by Bad bug

I am only going to say this once,for you to build what is know as a reliable t1 engine you will have to buy parts along the line of autocraft ( expensive ) , gene berg ( expensive ), pauter ( expensive ). What jake is saying is that a t4 2ltr engine can be built from 2.0l to 2.4ltr using the stock crank and be very reliable. Elroocky on this forum ran a 2.4ltr t4 motor in races for 8 years now that motor is in a daily driven bug he says not once have they pulled the block. Jake has taken a 1.7ltr t4 motor and turned it into a 3.0 monster.

you dont need gene berg parts or pauter parts to have a reliable T1 motor.
Other then the Gene Berg Shifter, Intermediate Mount & IDA stacks, most
Gene Berg Parts are over priced and unnecessary to have a realiable motor.
Nor do you need Pauter parts. You can build a realiable T1 motor with
CB Performance, Scat, Demello and plenty of other well know companies.

One more thing, a T4 motor doesnt have to cost you over $10000 to be
good either. This isnt rocket science. This is motor building. There is a point
where it just isnt worth spending the extra $1000's of dollars just to make it
a little better when you can get a damn good motor for thousands less with
out all the extra upgrades that may or may not make it a little more realiable.

[Supa Ninja]

First off I would like to appoligize to the thread starter, Oasis, because I will be taking my post on a tangent. About a year and half ago there was a kid on here by the name mystical, who had a opportunity to purchase a mullholland look super for cheap(I wonder why ). I guess he was in the tuner scene and wanted to get the most out of the car for autocross or something. He had never owned a older VW before so this was his first project. Needless to say lots and lots of questions, and i think he thought you could take a cheap bug and make it badass very easily. To make a short story long, he didn't live far from me so I showed my old '72 Super that at the time was under construction.
What we're, the GL community,doing can only be described as insane. A GLed VW is a economy car turned into a super car, you can't just bolt some parts on it and be done with it. This is accomplished after many months, I dare say years in my case, and the only way one continues on this hurdle course is to have a incredable love for this car. Who else would spend so much time researching, running down the "right" parts for his vision, the countless long hours of fabricating, and the money that is required for this project of projects. Now a car like Alex's old split, which in my mind is the ultimate GL, would you just spend a few thousand on a cheaply built T1, hell no you don't. You put the biggest baddest muther fukker that will fit in it, and that my friend is going to cost some serious cheddar.
I'm working on a budget, I'm cutting as many corners as I can and still have a quality GL. With all the help of my VW friends I'm still looking at least $7K in the car total, thats the car, lil pussy disc brakes, a stock 2L T4, 901, paint, cage, and tuner rims. Who the hell would buy a '71 Super Beetle in California for $7000? Only somenone who is insane would, if you want to look at it on paper. There is a feeling that get when you drive around in something that should be, but is because you built it. I want that feeling, I will keep at this through hell and high water. I sleep, live, and breathe this stuff.
As far as the cost of powerplants go why don't you ask some of the guys on here who have spent big bucks on a engine ask if they were to do it again would they go that route. Also ask the guys running the EJ's or the ecotec's if they are glad they did it. Me I'll run the 2.0L for a while and put a EJ in my 914 and see how I like it before I start to cut up my 1302. The good thing about GL is you can run whatever engine you want in your car, run whatever brakes, tranny choice it doesn't matter as long as you are getting the most gains. Me personally I see zero advantages in a swing axle, but there are a couple of guys wanting to go there, whatever I won't knockem.

Sorry bout the length,
Nick

[oasis]

No apologies are necessary.

I just wanted to be sure that staying within $8,000 and the other stated parameters, there was only one choice--albeit with slight variations and multiple choices of builders. That choice is the Type 1.

That is not a knock at Type 4 engines. That is not a knock at Suby engines. Each seemed to go outside my parameters by saying I needed to get "someone" to do this or to do that. Unless or until I find that "someone" it is not really a choice.

There will be plenty of time for me to find that "someone." During that time I will discover if the dollar figure is accurate or not.

I'm only the thread starter; not the thread owner. Feel free to tangent away. I'm still reading, learning, and enjoying.

Everyone has been civil. That's the most important set of parameters to stay within.

[Bad bug]

Here in Jamaica you have some guy's who went suby conversion and to what i have understand they weren't done properly. I guest those guy's will be looking for new chasis soon. But let me ask only one question isn't the suby engine heavier than the t4 if so those bugs will have cornering issues. I am somewhat going gl look without porsche rims, for now as my car was swing axle. I onced took a ride in my friends 2.0l type 1 engine car and saw what he did in corners and knew i could not do that with a swing axle car so at the end of this month i will be changing the chasis for a irs backend chasis.

[petevw]

Originally Posted by Supa Ninja

Now a car like Alex's old split, which in my mind is the ultimate GL, would you just spend a few thousand on a cheaply built T1, hell no you don't. You put the biggest baddest muther fukker that will fit in it, and that my friend is going to cost some serious cheddar.

I didn't go the T4 route, cause i wanted some serious power. My NA 2332 makes the 200hp, and i've gotten too used to it. So in the Split, a 2332 turbo will be stuffed in it. Plans are EFI, Turbo, Intercooled. Looking for 300-450hp.

Originally Posted by Supa Ninja

As far as the cost of powerplants go why don't you ask some of the guys on here who have spent big bucks on a engine ask if they were to do it again would they go that route. Nick

Yes, and i learned to spend it once on quality parts. I'd rather spend a couple bucks more doing a T1/T4, then cutting it up. I don't want to Hack out the back of the car to put a rotary/ecotec/suby in it. In my opinion it needs to stay aircooled.

Originally Posted by kleinporsche

Why don't you go and buy yourself a good whole Porsche 3.2L for around 17k!? Tabarnak! nowadays there is no modern car company that sells their "little" engines for such a big price.

Then if you wan real power, serious handling, go with a real porsche, or you will end up paying twice the price of a porsche for a car that want's to be but never quite will... Ouf, feel better now that I let some steam out. Sorry guys, I know this doesn't help, it is just opinions.

Originally Posted by Wally

Do you really think that we can't add up numbers (costs) ourselves and have not realised we could have gotten a nice old 911 for the same money?

For your consellation (sp?): most people don't understand why s/one else puts a lot of money into a bug or any aircooled old vw...

And as to your conception of the 'real' power and 'real' handling of a porsche versus one of 'our' cars: Mwhahahah!! please read up, your in for a big surprise...

Reagrds,
Walter

Problem is, i don't like old, nice, slow 911's. The ones i would fancy cost a little more. So until i can buy a upgraded 930, 993TT, or 996GT2/GT3 I will continue trying to make my bugs go faster, turn and brake harder. It's only costing me 1/2 the cheddar, and I AM doing it.