raked v. level & two-2s v. 4-the-same

[Chris Percival]

toplineparts.com sell caster fix bushes, that simply mount the anti-roll bar further forward.

[oasis]

Caster fix kit and the Flip-it bump steer kit come (actually came a couple of days ago) with the listed products above -- I forget what comes with what off the top of my head.

It's my understanding the MaXX struts used to be a 2½-inch drop at the first setting, but the newer struts are actually two inches or maybe a fraction less depending on the car's starting point. My 1302 has a pronounced nose-up look like models in the original brochures, so I imagine mine will be two inches.

I opened all five boxes yesterday and copied all of the installation literature which came with all of the parts. I delivered the copies to my lead mentor at the shop I frequent. As luck would have it, he was out sick yesterday.

Ironically enough, the TopLine printout for the struts still list 2½ inches as the first setting. I looked at the struts. I don't know exactly where I should measure with the units not on the car, but I'm hard-pressed to see two inches.

The rear settings will be interesting. From what I read, one notch may be too much of a drop.

If I remember correctly, there is a 1½- to 1¾-inch difference between the front and rear distances if measuring the current top of the tire and bottom of the fender (wing). Assuming the MaXX struts at the first setting lowers the front two inches, I would only be looking for a ¼- to a ½-inch drop for the rear. If one notch is more than that, I'll have a lowered nose-up stance -- not what I would be looking for.

Although quite pricey and although I received mixed reviews about them, I may bite the bullet and get adjustable spring plates for the rear if minor adjustments are necessary.

If 205/55-16s work, the speedo will not be that far off at all. The actual speed at a 70 MPH reading would be 68.58~70.38 MPH. (I listed a range because the calculator can compare a 75 series tire or an 80 series tire, and it is my understanding stock Beetle tires are actually 78 series. That being the case, a 70 MPH reading would be 69.66 MPH.)

I'm very excited about my first step to the Dark Side.

[rip]

oasis

as far as I under stand it, because I don't think any one had said it. The raked stance is better.

this is because with the nose down it doesn't allow for much air to flow under the body. This is often easy to understand, but the reason behind the higher, than front, rear end is so that little bit of air will enter will now be exposed to a larger volume, under the car. This larger volume is a decrease in pressure, thus a down force at the rear of the car is created.

The problem here is that the slope of the rear of the car is already shaped like a wing and the air is flowing very fast over the rear of the car, as compared to the underside, which creates lift. So I don't know if this will help alot.

But adding a wing and the raked stance should help.

[ECBug]

I read an article by an old racer that said on his super he kept the front end 1 inch higher than the rear and it handled better, I thought I read it hear but I cant find it. Oasis, didn't you get the kamei spoiler too? If so I would try to go level and a rear wing. JMHO

[oasis]

The stance of the car is slightly raked. The TopLine MaXX struts are at the first setting. The rear's stance went unchanged.

I did order a Kamei spoiler through the SBO! group buy. They haven't arrived yet so I don't have mine.

The car currently resides at the shop. The original plan was to take care of everything on a weekend. I'm not going into everything -- partly because of my penchant for producing long-winded posts, and partly because there is a whole lot of nothing going on. Some work was done during last week between customer's cars which needs repairs. I wasn't there for that. I'm not even sure I've been fully updated. (My schedule has been very full and I was away.)

The car looks good but at some point, I really need to drive it. At that point, I can give a comprehensive update, tweak anything that needs tweaking, and just plain move on with my project. I also promised a report on a shop in Manassas, Virginia, but I'm not showing up there without The Cruiser.

If the rear needs any lowering, I'll probably go with adjustable spring plates. They are pricey but I can't imagine more than a quarter-inch adjustment would be necessary. Any more than three-eighths of an inch may produce a nose-up stance. I already experienced that and at 68 MPH, a punter like me can feel an uplift.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by ECBug

I read an article by an old racer that said on his super he kept the front end 1 inch higher than the rear and it handled better,

IMHO, I tend to agree because more than aerodynamics, the caster of your car makes more difference in handling than the slightly changed airflow.
Nose down: less caster, hence the existence of caster shims on a standard.
Nose up: more caster, thus better straighline handling and straightline driving at high speeds is the most challanging in a bug, just like with that other rear engined car: the 911...

Nose down only looks better, but drives worse. Again, just mho.

Regards,
Walter

[oasis]

Great. All that money spent, and it's going to drive worse?! Maybe I can wait to drive it. Maybe my immediate circle was right; I should have kept it stock. So far, this has been more humbling than enjoyable.

[vujade]

Originally Posted by oasis

Great. All that money spent, and it's going to drive worse?! Maybe I can wait to drive it. Maybe my immediate circle was right; I should have kept it stock. So far, this has been more humbling than enjoyable.

no its not going to drive worse!!! Do you remember my car?
I road around for 6 months with the nose lowered 3" and the rear
was still stock. I had Maxx struts, caster fix bushings, tie rod flip kit
uprated sway bar and topline strut bar. The car was unbelievably better
then stock. BUT, it did tend to oversteer in hard turns because the ***
end was up in the air. Once the rear was lowered 1 notch, the car drove
even better then before.


One quick note to everyone. If you measure your Super at all points
prior to lowering your car (fenders, running boards, etc), you will find that
if your running boards were exactly the same height off the ground front
and rear and left and right, you would find that your front fenders would
be aproximately 1" higher off the ground the rear fenders.

So what does all of this mean? Well I would imagine that Volkswagen intended
for the Super to have more ground clearance in the front for the wheels to
turn properly and not hit the fenders.

I prefer the look of having the fenders level vs having the car level. So for
Super Owners (this is probably true for standards as well), I would lower
lower the front of the car 1" lower then the rear. From the ground it will have
a slight rake, but when you look at the car from the side, you will see that
both fenders are evenly positioned over the wheels with the same gap.

So you have to ask yourself, do you want your car to be level according to
the ground or lbe evel according to your fenders? I prefer the latter!!!

[Wally]

Don't worry too much about it; Lowering it in general gives much better handling (and I don't own wisdom either )
FYI, my car does not have its nose in the air either...(its sort of level) and handles great!
Just drive it first.

Best regards,
Walter

[rip]

Originally Posted by Wally

IMHO, I tend to agree because more than aerodynamics, the caster of your car makes more difference in handling than the slightly changed airflow.
Nose down: less caster, hence the existence of caster shims on a standard.
Nose up: more caster, thus better straighline handling and straightline driving at high speeds is the most challanging in a bug, just like with that other rear engined car: the 911...

Nose down only looks better, but drives worse. Again, just mho.

Regards,
Walter

So then wouldn't the nose down and the caster shims be close to the same as stock?

Perhaps we need to develop some better caster shims? So we can rake and have good handling. Though only a good solution for beamed bugs.

I wouldn't know how to increase caster with a super

[rip]

http://www.toplineparts.com/cbush.html

how about these?