type 4 starter engine

[Supa Ninja]

Originally Posted by oasis

The mention of modified decklids means major alarms are now going off in my head. I thought I read this would not be necessary.

If a Fat Porsche shroud is used, yes. Most likely you'll end up with a RAT Type IV and a DTM will be the means of cooling(no mods to the deck lid needed).

[73notch]

i was in your situation when i went through my type 4 phase. I wanted a 2270, blah blah. but things can get a bit overwhelming, i just name a few problem areas....
-lifters!
-heads are freggin expensive, with a 2270, the heads will be the weakpoint, so u have to determine how far u should go with headwork$$$$$$$
-exhaust, now that u are at a 2270, and spent $$$$$$$ on those heads^^ u gotta throw down some bills for a decent exhaust, u dont wanna restrict those expensive heads with a run of the mill stock bus exhaust.

If you go the type 4 route, and if i were to go the type 4 route, i would get a stock 2 liter engine, run it til it dies, and put in another used one. The most i would change would be
-carburation
-cams
-home port/polish
-build ur own shroud, using the next gen thing

then when you can, swap the 2.0 heads for 1.8 carburated heads. they have the same outside diameter as the 2.0 jugs.

and if you want to make it even easier, sell the bug and buy a type 3, then you wont even have to make a shroud.

btw, i ended up going the subaru route.....
-Ryan

[oasis]

When I was car shopping, I considered a Type 3. There were so few in good enough shape available or worth bringing to the east coast, it wasn't even funny. There was one Notch in Vancouver I considered, two Fasties, and a Type 34 Ghia I agreed to buy except the scoundrel decided I needed to buy "$10,000 worth of parts for an additional $4,000" as well. That addendum killed the deal.

Four cars in more than a year of searching was fairly daunting.

Now having said that, I am shocked by your answer. I have been reading the Subaru threads and I have seen your site. So with all of that going on, I'm surprised you are suggesting an engine which may make 85-100 HP.

For all I know, 85-100 HP may indeed be enough. My wife's Golf TDI is only listed at 90 HP if memory serves me correctly. I think the torque is in the 150 FT-LB range, however. Her Golf is clearly heavier than my little 1302. I am hoping I get to be a passenger in a bunch of cars at Dyno Day.

I hate being clueless.

I can handle waiting. At some point I can handle the necessary expense -- depending what it is, and obviously, up to a point.

Are you saying the expense makes the 2270 undesirable? Are you saying there are going to be longevity issues after making such a financial commitment?

[Bad bug]

Oasis go t4. Their are a couple of guy's hear in jamaica that have subarus in their bugs but their conversions was not done properly, these guys are waiting on disaster to happen. I for one though about a suby transplant for my standard after seeing what was necessary for the conversion i went t4.

[73notch]

thats kinda what im saying, all the extra work and stuff for the 2270 just dosnt make sense to me when for the power..
the 2l should make a good 100 hp give or take.
the 2270 that jake makes, last i checked makes 150-160? right?
thats with dyno tuning, and some stuff we dont know. id say once you get it running, youll be making 130-140 out of it. i dont think the huge expense is worth that amount of power increase.
Its more of a simplicity reason in my mind i guess. when you drive your stock 1600 around, it just....feels reliable and works. if you put 4 grand of parts into that 1600, it would be hella fast, but i for one would be scared of it breaking and id be **** outta luck. it could be even worse with the type 4. But think if you had a 2 liter t4. it was a stock engine size. You didnt do much work to it, blah blah. If it blew, they are cheap. I dont know about you, but i got two, 2l t4 engines back then, complete for 100 bucks a piece.

btw i never suggested a subaru conversion, i know its alot of work, and i think my site shows that. Im not saying ones better than the other either, you look at the specs and compare the good and bad and make your own choice.

[oasis]

I think Bad bug was really responding to me in that I was following the Suby threads while asking about Type 4's, rather than intimating you, 73notch, were suggesting a Suby conversion for me.

I actually have done some very basic research with regards to a Suby conversion for a future Vanagon even before I bought my Super. I am leaning towards a TDI if/when that day comes. Unless a Suby conversion proves surprisingly simple, it would be backburnered 'til my next Super.

Meanwhile, thanks 73notch for the clarification. I understand where you are coming from. I appreciate the advice.

[oicdn]

Originally Posted by 73notch

the 2270 that jake makes, last i checked makes 150-160? right?
thats with dyno tuning, and some stuff we dont know. id say once you get it running, youll be making 130-140 out of it. i dont think the huge expense is worth that amount of power increase.

EXACTLY MY POINT. Not just picking on Jake...if I were going T4, it would hands down be a motor by him...I just think you can do better with 4 grand than an AC motor. People claim "well it's not a VW anymore..." But when we're going GL, is it really one anymore either? It has Porsche brakes, a Porsche motor, Porsche wheels(contact patch) and suspension that is tuned FAR BEYOND what the car was intended for, super or not, I think GL cars go FAR beyond the term "spirited driving".

If you're gonna spend $4K, why not spend it on something STOCK that produces 200HP (scoobie) and you don't have to worry about valves or any other VW engine quirks. Now, I'm probably not going scooby, but I'm just speaking from an open minded perspective.....

HUGE expense, for hardly any gain...reletively speaking of course...

[oasis]

Four grand? I don't think a 2270 is four grand.

In my case, I'm not looking for max HP. I know 200 is too much for me because a 1.8T doesn't make 200 in stock form and that's plenty in an A4 platform. Given how much lighter a Super is, I think I could come up with a comparative scaling of what HP and torque I might desire given the known natures (to me) of a 2.0, a 1.8T, an a TDI and compensating for the lighter weight.

73notch correctly surmised I want a reliable engine. I don't want one to be capable of 150 MPH and keeping me tied up every weekend tinkering with it.

A water-cooler in stock form is still going to require tinkering because it is unnatural in a bug. There are special needs for cooling and plumbing. The balance of the car will be affected by the extra weight. This will require "tuning" the suspension, or replacing it more often.

I admire the pioneers who embark on this course or similar.

I am not a pioneer.

I want a "normal" pocket rocket -- that is, one that might have been offered by VW today if the Super were still being made.

Do you know how fast my Cabrio goes? Neither do I. I have never taken it to its max in the four years I have owned it. I know it will do more than 100 because I have driven it that fast, and there was more to give. I know it will happily sustain 90 because there has been occasion for me to do that, too.

But that is not my normal driving. I like knowing I can push it if I need to. The only reason I want to get a s/c for it is so I can punch it up more quickly if the situation calls for it. My Cabrio is in no particular hurry to achieve those speeds even though once there, it offers no complaint.

That's what I want out of my Super. Pep to shake loose bothersome slow pokes who adhere to speed limits too closely. Speed to handle any lane on any interstate at any given time. Reliability such that routine maintenance is all that is needed for the entire car, and anything else needed is non-routine.

I like the low-end torque of my TDI, the punch of my 1.8T, and the hasslefree nature of my 2.0.

Price was not mentioned because it is fourth in line. That does not mean price is no object. It simply means I'm okay paying a bit extra to get all three attributes. If getting all three attributes is too prohibitive, I will then lower my standards.