VW Trends German Look Shootout

[NYBugman1972]

If I sounded like I was against 15" wheels, allow me to clarify.

The German Look is mostly known in the US as having large diameter wheels, therefore the small diameter wheels would fail to put it into the GL category.

Personally, I believe that these cars are greater than the sum of their parts. So, excuse me if I sounded like a Cal-looker for a moment

Big wheels or small, you just can't argue with performance!

[Wally]

Shame I can't get VWTrends here anywhere..
Looks like the article resembles the article in VW Speed a few years ago. Did the 105x82 engine of Boxer shop in his orabge 1303 and really big wheels particpate also?
I remember the Willibald car with 2366 (103x71) made 188 hp. The dyno that day was a little on the low side, since all cars seemed to perform less than they measured on other dyno's.
Also the Gerd Tafel car was reported to 'drive like a modern 911, but faster'. Damn, I almost can recite that complete article from VW Speed.
For me it was also a strong indication that EFI was the way to go.
Walter

[vujade]

Wally I believe it was a reprint of the VW Speed article.

It is just good to hear that a US based mag is finally getting a clue :silly:

[NYBugman1972]

Yeah, it's an article from VW Speed, and it's the same one you're thinking of Wally.

[vujade]

Here is the specs on Boxer Shop's 1973 1303 SB

Engine Displacement: 2840cc (82mm Scat crank x 105mm JE p/c)
Case: VW Type 4
Rods: Porsche 912
Cam: Schleicher 324-degree at 1mm, stock rockers
Heads: Type 4
Valves: 47 x 38
CR: 8.5 to 1
Ignition: Bosch
Carbs: Dual Weber 48IDF's w/ encased filters
Exhaust: 1 3/4" Ahnendorp (BAS) stainless steel
Clutch: Sachs heavy duty
Trans: VW Type AT, tall gears

PERFORMANCE
Horsepower: 176 at 5940rpm (62HP per liter)
Torque: 192 ft/lbs at 4560rpm (67.6 ft/lbs per liter)
0-60mph: 5.91 seconds corrected
0-100mph: 16.15 seconds
50-75mph: 4.80 seconds
Weight: 2200lbs (full tank of gas)

COMMENTS
Mille Miglia wheels, 17x7.5 and 18x8 (205/40-17 & 225/40-18 tires). Starts as well as a stocker. As is often the case with 105mm pistons, the latter make a metalic sound. Starts without problem when warm. Continous power always there. Deep and pleasant sound of the engine. Quiet in town. Accelerates quickly, a surprise considering the weight of the car and the wheels. 2850rpm at 62mph in fourth gear.

Stock differential not up to par anymore. Slight oil leak on one of the cylinders. Good oil pressure. Oil temp between 215 and 230 degrees F. Cooling of the case may need to be improved. Engine nicely assembled and looks great.

*experts from June 03, VW Trends Magazine

[Wally]

Thanks guys, that saves me from the hassle of finding a VWT copy :-)

BTW, I hope Julian (lightning bug) reads the article as well, since he thougth that a reliable N/A 2,7 ltr could not be made (thread in the transmission forum on the recognision of a 915 trans). The 2,7 ltr car of Gerd Tafel proves oherwise, since that car is already quite 'old' and has driven a lot of hard miles. Plus that car doesn't even have Nickies and still gets 226 Hp. Mind you that these power figures are german DIN horsepower. The american bhp is up to 10% less. That would bring that engine to about 250 bhp!

About a year later, the same sort of test has been done on 2 liter engines (both type 1 and type 4) and also, again about a year after that for 1,8 ltr engines (also type 1 and type 4's). Very interesting results.

Hopefully VW Trends does a reprint+translation of those articles as well.

Walter

[Wally]

Joe,
VWT must have translated the VW speed article not entirely well: the metallic sound the engine made when cold was considered to be 105mm typical, because of tilting pistons (!). It did not strike back to the nice idle running...
Like I said, knowing that article almost by hart...:-)
Walter

[lightning bug]

Boy Wally, you really like running your mouth. EITHER

1) You are blind
2) You can't read
3) You get off on changing people's words around

If you read the post ,obviously you haven't. I said that the 2.7 is"not the best choice." Never said "it couldn't be made." I am finished with that thread. Now you want to start another debate? Wally please, don't start anything if you can't get the facts straight or you can't quote a previous post correctly. 2.7L T4, so what? I've seen a 2276 turbo T1 with 115,000 miles, street driven and raced numerous times, and only replaced the bearings. People say that 2276's, or any T1 with 94's for that matter, will never see 100,000 mi. It can be done and it has. And a 2.7 T4 can be done. My point......Are either of these engine's practical for the street? I still say no, and I have a 2276 turbo street car. There is a certain well-known T4 builder that doesn't recommend this displacement be built for the street either. What else do you want to talk about? Just wondering what your deal is. Its fine if I said what you stated, but I didn't. A little advise.... You can't quote it, unless it was said.

[vujade]

OK guys, relax now.
Dont turn this into STF.

Julian, Wally has obviously misquoted you, but I am sure he didnt do it on purpose.

[Wally]

Sorry Julian, but I didn't mean to quote you. Maybe it got to me somehow that you spoke negatively about my upcoming project, a 2,7 ltr type 4... Also I think you overreact a little here and therefore I agree with Vujade to not let this go out of control. If I have offended you or you think I misquoted you in any way, I sincerely apologize.
By saying that you think that a Type 4 2,7 ltr is not the best choise for the street, you did give me the impression you think it can't be done. The VW-Speed article 3 years ago triggered my 2,7 ltr project back than. That combined with your recent remark on the 2,7 ltr was the reason for this reaction. I hope you understand.
Now with the data you just gave on your big type 1 turbo and N/A engines - who I assume drive fine - doing more than 100 thousand miles and you say that you still dont think they are not the best choise for the street either, I get even more confused. To me any tuned aircooled engine that drives great and does that milage, I would say they are a great choise for the street.. But hey, we obviously have a difference of opinion on more than one thing, which is no problem for me. Lets just learn from each others experiences. At least I am sure I could learn from your experiences, hearing the engines you have assembled in the past.
No harm done here. Hope you feel the same.
Sorry for the lengthy reply, but I felt it was necessary this time.
Walter

[lightning bug]

I was a little fired up too about the other thread and was still when I read this. I don't want to make enemies. I apologize. This isn't the STF. It just seemed like you were provoking more. Bad judgement on my part to escalade it even more. Let's put it behind us. Again I apologize.