raked v. level & two-2s v. 4-the-same

[vujade]

Originally Posted by oasis

Great. All that money spent, and it's going to drive worse?! Maybe I can wait to drive it. Maybe my immediate circle was right; I should have kept it stock. So far, this has been more humbling than enjoyable.

no its not going to drive worse!!! Do you remember my car?
I road around for 6 months with the nose lowered 3" and the rear
was still stock. I had Maxx struts, caster fix bushings, tie rod flip kit
uprated sway bar and topline strut bar. The car was unbelievably better
then stock. BUT, it did tend to oversteer in hard turns because the ***
end was up in the air. Once the rear was lowered 1 notch, the car drove
even better then before.


One quick note to everyone. If you measure your Super at all points
prior to lowering your car (fenders, running boards, etc), you will find that
if your running boards were exactly the same height off the ground front
and rear and left and right, you would find that your front fenders would
be aproximately 1" higher off the ground the rear fenders.

So what does all of this mean? Well I would imagine that Volkswagen intended
for the Super to have more ground clearance in the front for the wheels to
turn properly and not hit the fenders.

I prefer the look of having the fenders level vs having the car level. So for
Super Owners (this is probably true for standards as well), I would lower
lower the front of the car 1" lower then the rear. From the ground it will have
a slight rake, but when you look at the car from the side, you will see that
both fenders are evenly positioned over the wheels with the same gap.

So you have to ask yourself, do you want your car to be level according to
the ground or lbe evel according to your fenders? I prefer the latter!!!

[Wally]

Don't worry too much about it; Lowering it in general gives much better handling (and I don't own wisdom either )
FYI, my car does not have its nose in the air either...(its sort of level) and handles great!
Just drive it first.

Best regards,
Walter

[rip]

Originally Posted by Wally

IMHO, I tend to agree because more than aerodynamics, the caster of your car makes more difference in handling than the slightly changed airflow.
Nose down: less caster, hence the existence of caster shims on a standard.
Nose up: more caster, thus better straighline handling and straightline driving at high speeds is the most challanging in a bug, just like with that other rear engined car: the 911...

Nose down only looks better, but drives worse. Again, just mho.

Regards,
Walter

So then wouldn't the nose down and the caster shims be close to the same as stock?

Perhaps we need to develop some better caster shims? So we can rake and have good handling. Though only a good solution for beamed bugs.

I wouldn't know how to increase caster with a super

[rip]

http://www.toplineparts.com/cbush.html

how about these?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by rip

http://www.toplineparts.com/cbush.html

how about these?

Yep, have those on my car

[ECBug]

Not worse by any means. Mine is raked now cause I havent lowered the back yet I was waiting on some more parts first, do it all at one time. Mine handles a lot better now that the front is lowered. I had the rear end get sideways on me a few times before I lowered the front, you know that old weight transfer. But, since I dropped the front it hasnt even come close, I guess all the weight is now on the front and doesnt change as fast as before.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by ECBug

Mine handles a lot better now that the front is lowered.

I assume you are referring to cornering handling.

Try driving at 100-120 mph and you know what caster changes do for straight line stability...

[oasis]

It's been long enough since I ordered my TopLine stuff, I don't remember if the Caster Fix Bushings were included. (I remember the dollar amount, though. ) I'll have to look it up when I get home, and order the kit if I hadn't already.

I have only eye-balled the car from a distance since most of the work has been done. I'll have to do vujade's double-reference measuring when I can. My friend slipped my car in between customers' cars in for repair to do some things when I wasn't there. He warned me about the rake. I thought it was minimal, but it might have been the angle and distance from where I was observing.

I'm hoping the Kamei spoiler will make a difference. (I'm curious as to why it is concave shaped, but I have enough of a headache trying not to stress out.)

Funny thing is -- and not ha-ha funny -- I was told it was a good thing I didn't lower the rear or I would have my tires fouling. I'd like to tweak it some, but I won't know how much for sure until I see it again up close and personal. (I may have to downsize my 205/55-16s a fraction and/or go with adjustable spring plates.)

[ECBug]

Originally Posted by Wally

I assume you are referring to cornering handling.

Try driving at 100-120 mph and you know what caster changes do for straight line stability...

Yeah, I was. My car is a daily driver and not a racer. I dont spend a lot of time over 100mph. The law just wont let me.