250 hp for $1500 with adapter any one?

lazylongboarder · #1 September 25th 2005, 04:23

Thinking of cows jumping over the moon one night laying in bed thinking, I decided that the subaru EJ20T is an excellent choice for a motor. And for the value, it can't be beat.

Here is how I came up with the $1500 figure:

EJ20T from Nippon-motors.com - $650

Shipping average - $200

Adapter with fly wheel from kennedy engineering - $410

Clutch from anyone your little heart desires - $190

ECU off of Ebay - $50

A 915/901 wouldn't have any problems holding up to this motor which would be one wicked little combo. Not to bad since a 150 hp air-cooled motor averages between $3000-$4500, which is what you could get this whole setup for.

I'm going with the EJ20TT. I'm doing a single turbo conversion. I'll run the motor at 18 lbs of boost until it blows up then get a STI shortblock and put forged and billet goodies and cryo and nitride the block and crank and then put 33 lbs of boost and then play with my 540 hp 6 speed toy.
Rock and Roll :help:!

71superbug · #2 September 28th 2005, 00:02

ok..i see where you are coming from.

so now..on top of those prices you said.

add...3-400 for custom exhaust
radiator install
different fuel pumps
return lines and what not into the fuel tank .etc .etc

dont forget to add up all the little things or you will get a nasty shock.

its still definately a better bang for your buck conversion than an aircooled motor.

Anthony

jonnyspatter · #3 October 4th 2005, 14:09

Its a popular conversion over here, check out www.tsrdragracers.co.uk or www.ricola.co.uk for details.

I'd like to do it to mine, but I'm undecided. Its either that or a turbo'd 1776 with EFI!

ricola · #4 October 4th 2005, 15:58

You know you want to...

lazylongboarder · #5 October 5th 2005, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyspatter

Its a popular conversion over here, check out www.tsrdragracers.co.uk or www.ricola.co.uk for details.

I'd like to do it to mine, but I'm undecided. Its either that or a turbo'd 1776 with EFI!

I hate to burst your bubble but that is definately comparing apples to oranges.

A turbo'd 1776 will get about 180 hp TOPS. And thats being generous. The EJ20T has 227 hp stock with cats and all of the emission crap and stock ecu. With a free flow exhaust, larger fuel pump, injectors and EMS...340 hp is not uncommon according to several tuners (Danzio,Xcceleration,Crawford,Cobb).

The stock internals go to **** once you get rambuctious and turn the boost to 20 lbs.. The rods are the first to go on average at 405 hp, then the wrist pins at 415 hp, then the pistons start getting holes blown in them at 420 hp. I've seen an EJ20TT block with billet "H" beam rods and forged pistons with the stock block and crank pull a 660 hp dyno run. Obviously on 112 race gas, but it did it. 18 lbs is the limit with still being some what safe. Most guys will have the boost set to 16 lbs and run it on race gas to prevent detonation and be safe.

Always be prepared to spend more than what you planned, just so you don't get sticker shock.

The adapter alone to my G50 is $772! To a 901/915 is $410. The only reason why i'm going with such an exotic tranny is cause it's the only one that'll handle 800 ft. lbs of torque. If anyone knows of another strong tranny with LSD, please let me know. I don't want to drop $4500 into a tranny then find out there was something hidden out there that was cheaper and lighter.

73notch · #6 October 9th 2005, 14:54

curious why you are doing a single turbo conversion to a twin turbo block. when i looked into it a while back, the blocks were the same, only difference was the twin turbo had a higher compression ratio.

ricola · #7 October 9th 2005, 15:24

From what I've read earlier twin turbo blocks were closed deck, just an easy way to make sure you get a CDB when building a high bhp engine!
Rich

73notch · #8 October 9th 2005, 16:36

the same generation ej20g's (single turbo) ones are closed deck also.

lazylongboarder · #9 October 9th 2005, 22:25

Actually, the only closed deck block that subaru ever produced was the EJ22, a naturally aspirated 2.2 liter motor put in the legacy's in the early 90's. The STi now has a semi closed deck block. Both the EJ20T and EJ20TT have an open deck block. No 2.0 or 2.5 liter deck has ever been closed from the factory. Not even the Forrester 2.5 X... 330 hp from the factory.

When I make my fire-breather i'll use either the STi block or the EJ22 block, sleeve it, Forged rods, billet pistons, cams, valves, retainers, port and polish, T3/T4, 33 psi, and no muffler.

When the EJ22 block is sleeved the block will be able to handle 50 psi! All I would have to worry about is the crank snapping in two and finding rods, wristpins, rings, pistons, valves, cams, retainers...Hell every thing breaks at those pressure levels. The EJ20T and TT block will handle 400 hp stock, that'll be fine for a while. 400 hp in a bug is plenty if you ask me.

The only difference between the EJ20T and the EJ20TT is that the heads are differant. The valves are slightly larger and the cams are a little more aggresive. The shortblocks on these two motors are identical, hence an identical compression ratio.

The reason why i'm going with a single turbo conversion is that the header is heavier than a sandrail header and controlling boost is much easier as well as plumbing for a high capacity intercooler. But if you are looking for an easy 300 hp on a budget, The EJ20T series motors can't be beat. I have to use a sandrail style header because of the rear exiting (to the motor, forwards on a rear engined application) stock style header based on the EJ20T will interfere with the cross member of the 993's rear suspension that i'm putting on.

ricola · #10 October 10th 2005, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazylongboarder

Actually, the only closed deck block that subaru ever produced was the EJ22, a naturally aspirated 2.2 liter motor put in the legacy's in the early 90's. The STi now has a semi closed deck block. Both the EJ20T and EJ20TT have an open deck block. No 2.0 or 2.5 liter deck has ever been closed from the factory. Not even the Forrester 2.5 X... 330 hp from the factory.

that conflicts with everything I have ever read on the EJ20T, I have seen many pictures of closed deck EJ20's and from what I've read my EJ20t RA is definitely CDB

Rich

73notch · #11 October 10th 2005, 15:26

ya, 90-94 ej20 single turbo models (ej20g) were closed deck. after that, i belive only the sti was semi closed deck, and the new wrx is open deck.

i dont see why they would make a closed deck 2.2 NA only. wasnt that a US only motor?

people refer to the older legacy motors as bulletproof because of this. They are bulletproof, but their HLA heads are there limiter.

-Ryan

scoobytuner · #12 October 17th 2005, 23:15

hello lazylongboarder, you suggested a good forum to join in my new addiction (73 super soon to be vwrx)

being a very longtime subaru guy, i would like to chime in on a few things from this thread.

about blocks...

the ej22 non turbo is not the only block that is closed deck. there were other ej22 blocks that were also closed deck, that came on turbo cars. the 22b being one of the most famous subarus ever made, had a very stout 2.2 liter fully closed deck block. mystically, the 91-92 (iirc) legacy turbo, came with a fully closed deck 2.2 liter turbo motor as well, and even came equipped with piston oil squirters for. The ej20g is also closed deck. The new 2.5 liter blocks which can be found in the 2004-present STi forester XT, legacy 2.5gt and the 06 WRX are all semi closed deck. VERY stout bottom ends for people who want to spool huge turbos and make mucho torque. I plan on swapping my 2.0 liter out for a 2.5 at a later date, and that shortblock can be had for about 1500 brand new from subaru. To date, Subaru tuners have made a record 465WHP on 91 octane pump, and 564WHP on 116 race gas with GT35r and GT40R turbos respectively, on Completely BONE stock STI motors, heads, cams shortblock n all. And keep in mind that that is through an AWD powertrains.

anyways, soon enough, I am going to start my swap. Either an ej207, or an ej20g. the 207 revs stock to 8k and can be spun out to 8500 rpms. the good thing is, that revs dont break transfercases as easily as torque does. thats a benefit there.

another thing is, that I found a local guy who offered to wire my beetle with the factory WRX ecu, as well as engine harness. I like the idea having the stock ecu power the car. if i ever want to modify the turbo, or fuel system, or anything else, there is a piggyback system offered call the turboxs UTEC, and actually was the piggyback system that powered both those stock block record setting pump gas and race gas stis. anyways, thats alot of talking, im out.

scoobytuner · #13 October 17th 2005, 23:25

oh, and the other thing is, that closed deck blocks will overheat easier. which could be a concern with our cars, because we have to make complete custom cooling systems.

the block in my wrx is a fully open deck sleeved 2.5 liter block, 79mm bore, 99mm stroke displacing 2.4 liters, and believe me, it will hold as much power as you could every imagine making in a VW, and has NEVER overheated on me in 2 years of 20 psi on a very large garrett turbo, and a stock radiator.

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