difference between 944 '86 turbo & 87 turbo+ brakes?

[SprintStar]

Hello Tim,

Let's talk this offline, shall we? May I email you?

Sprint.

[MattKab]

Originally posted by Superman
Get the 17mm ball joint from Kerscher!!! The homemade shim, which should be 2mm, is VERY dangerous and if it fails the control arm will come off the spindle and you will loose the ability to steer the car. The strut tower will be all but torn off the car, the wheel will be forced into the fender and body causing damage. All of this is before the car evently crashes into something because you can't steer it. Is your car and more importantly your life worth about $75??? You guys need to remember that all these cutting and welding modifications to the suspension can be a dangerous situation.

I went on a small campaign last summer targeting those who describe how to cowboy such a critical component interface. I detailed the problem last year and on the old GL site. Some waffling about pinch bolt groove radius. can that be dug up? I spread the word about the quality of fitment these ball-joints have. Mine each took 8500 kg force to push in. that'll do nicely.

I heard the source of the failed dickbush tradgedy was volksworld, I don't know I don't read it. If it's in there please confirm.

I get mail asking about my 4 wheel 4pot from all over the world. This is where I send 'em! If they don't come from here

For my convenience, I'll cut/paste and add a bit of sent mail:

At the front I used the stub-axles, 298mm vented discs and 4pot Brembos from
a 1987 model 944Turbo. I had to fit anti-bumpsteer bushes to the steering
arms to invert the outer track-rod ends. You'll need to change your 15mm
ball-joints for 17mm ones from Kerscher in Germany. I also used Kerscher
adjustable struts with 80mm Eibach springs and Koni adjustable inserts. The
stub-axles also needed the strut mounting holes welding up and re-drilling
5mm closer together, keeping equal spacing between the holes and the edge of
the mounting lugs on the forgings. Also the strut mounting tab of the stub-axle
needed 3mm(1.5mm each side) shimming inside the strut clamp. New from VW strut mounting bolt(top)/camber adjusting eccentric washer strut bolt(lower) and ball joint pinch bolt from a 80's golf/scirocco/jetta will do nicely. All M10 as opposed to Bug's M8 pinch bolt. I also fitted a
23mm anti-roll bar, again from Kerscher. The quality of their kit is second
to none. TUV approved I believe. You'll need a German friend for www.kerschertuning.de

At the back I'm using the stock Bug trailing arms and a 16mm 944 rear
anti-roll bar. 298mm vented discs, Aluminium back plates, Aluminium calliper mounts,
4pot Brembo's and handbrake set from a 1986 944Turbo, leaving out the 21mm
wheel spacer and fitting the 21mm shorter wheel studs from a 1987 944Turbo.
The callipers are shimmed ~3mm to the centre of the disc. You'll need to make
up some longer brake hard-lines for all 4 callipers, same unions as the Bug.
I also use Goodridge stainless braided flex hoses and DOT4 brake fluid. The
stock master cylinder displaces more than enough fluid to move the 16
pistons, no problem. Front/rear bias is sweet. Don't be told otherwise ;-)
The pedal effort necessary to stop the car requires a hydraulic pressure
barely high enough to operate the brake light switch! So I fitted a
micro-switch to earth to the bulk-head with a small 16amp relay at the brake light connector by the brake fluid delivery pipes. A M8 bolt in a 30mm piece of fuel hose is
strapped to the m/c push rod. The bolt head is adjusted to make contact with
the switch at a selected pedal position and is wired in parallel with the
original. Devastating braking if you want, Check your mirror!!!!


:coffee:



Rack and pinion, the track-rods need work as does the rack if you're running biggerrrrrrrrims

I'm working on adjustable steering limit Bug rack conversion. I'm currently using 2 shims in the rack, 22 and 28mm I recall.



Matt

I don't remember the issue of Volksworld it was as I don't subscribe either but they had an article that recommended this procedure of welding and drilling the spindles along with the added shims. This article, which included the ball joint shim, was denounced in a later issue due to safety issues and a reader that had crashed his car.

I don't feel hat welding, drilling, and adding shims to such a critical suspension piece is safe (to say the least). My plan is to take some 951 (944 Turbo) struts and build a coil-over kit to fit the Super, much like I did with these.

Although this is still not the best, it is the lesser of the two evils because if a spring fails the worst thing is the car will drop and perhaps pull to one side. If a welded/drilled/shimed spindle fails the fate will be much like that of a ball joint failure.

What I really, really, REALLY wish is I could afford the kit from MBT.

www.mbt-engineering.de

[SprintStar]

How much are the MBT kits? I did download the pricelist, but I can't read German....

Sprint.

The complete kit is $2500 (or more depending on what calipers you want) but the front hubs and spindle mounts are $800.

[SprintStar]

Are the hubs different?

I'm thinking of using 944 spindles, hubs and rotors with just their adaptor to fit the Turbo brakes... Will it work? Or am I on crack? :silly:

Sprint.

Their kit is to fit the Porsche disc and caliper to the VW spindle.

[Tim]

Hi Sprint,
If you don't mind, email me at cheungkamtim@ctimail3.com.

Tim

[MattKab]

Originally posted by Superman
I don't remember the issue of Volksworld it was as I don't subscribe either but they had an article that recommended this procedure of welding and drilling the spindles along with the added shims. This article, which included the ball joint shim, was denounced in a later issue due to safety issues and a reader that had crashed his car.

I don't feel hat welding, drilling, and adding shims to such a critical suspension piece is safe (to say the least). My plan is to take some 951 (944 Turbo) struts and build a coil-over kit to fit the Super, much like I did with these.

Although this is still not the best, it is the lesser of the two evils because if a spring fails the worst thing is the car will drop and perhaps pull to one side. If a welded/drilled/shimed spindle fails the fate will be much like that of a ball joint failure.

I love the idea of using the whole steering/suspension but it would mean too much modding for me. sourcing the right springrate, damping ratio and range. I like your thinking Supe.

With respect to '87 944T stub and Kerscher Golf style strut in my case:

Obviously when undertaking such procedures, a great deal of thought and attention to detail has to be paramount. Being an Engineer myself I know when and where to seek the right experience, facility and quality. MOT Inspector, Coded Welder, Chartered Precision Engineer, that kind of help. I'm satisfied with my ride and so are they Very important to me.

In this particular component interface, a properly* modified stub-axle is stronger than a modified strut clamp IMO. Again, the lesser of two evils. Also the stub-axle won't have the same garrantee as a new strut, cosidering the whole new assembly comes pre-assembled, best to leave it alone.

I never warmed to the idea of using caliper 'adapters' considering the appearance and the massive grip and braking torque the Porsche Engineers had in mind. I'm going for a drive...

[typ4boy]

you lot out there need too listen to superman about porsche spindles on late 2 bolt struts. DO NOT SHIM THE BALL JOINT YOU ARE DICING WITH DEATH, i do this conversion on a regular basis for my customers and i only use the speical ball joints that are availble from many german tuning shops .regards Lee L.A.Performance.

[typ4boy]

also while iam here check out our website we do our own struts why bother with all the hassle of modding porsche ones when you can buy a complete kit for £350 a pair and there on my 03 that regularly appears on the front page of this site regards Lee www.germanlook.co.uk