Questions about VW1302RSis ride

[VW1302RSi]

Hello Jak,

Thanks for the reply

Originally Posted by jakriz

I was wondering how u are going with your inlet temps. I'm running a RS Liberty water to air intercooler on my wrx engine. My inlet temps run around 5 - 10 degrees above ambient on the street, on the track I can get them up to 50d which I have been told by many Subaru experts is more than acceptable & I shouldn't worry until I get near 70d inlet temps.

My cars is powered by a 2.52L N/A engine so inlet temps are one of the things I don't have to worry about.

Originally Posted by jakriz

Also how are your water temps going as well, I noticed that your inlet & outlets run incredibly close to your sump & exhaust headers. The temps between those are huge.

Your right the temp difference between the exhaust and the coolant pipes is huge. Only the thermostat to rad pipe/hose the runs near the exhaust and I don't see over 85 degC normally on the gauge and when I dynoed it she was just peeking of 90 degC after two hours.
The other thing to remember is lots and I mean lots of vehicle manufactures run coolant pipes near exhaust systems, Its not a problem on my car if it was turboed it may be a different story.

Originally Posted by jakriz

I also read about your mod to your thermostat to help bleeding, I actually don't run a thermostat, 2 reasons, 1, it gives the perfect bleed & doesn't allow air pockets around number 4 piston water jacket & 2, I have 16 litres of coolant cooling my engine (standard wrx is 6 litres) I spoke to many guys that had done kombi conversions, some of which had experienced head cracking & warping due to the thermostat opening once warm & letting a huge volume of cold water in to the engine. I just let mine warm up each morning properly & it's been sweet. Just something u may want to think about.

The reason these guys cracked blocks or heads or what ever was due to thermal shock and as they have worked out if you open a thermostat when one side is 30-40 degC hotter than the other side thermal shock can occur and its worse when you run huge coolant volumes.
When you look at my car running from cold as the engine warms up coolant still circulates through the complete cooling system and as the engine warms up to operating temp and the thermostat opens the gauge drops about 5-7 degC I have confirmed this with a temp gun on the coolant pipes, so there is no thermal shock.

Most manufactures have a small hole in the t/stat one of its tasks is to allow the coolant to circulate before the t/stat opens and warm up the cooling system evenly, all I have done is enlarged the hole due to the amount of coolant I’m running.

Again look at big trucks and coaches some of them have over 15L of coolant in the radiator alone and they run thermostats and warm up evenly, why because the circulate enough water thought the radiator etc to allow an even warm up before the thermostat opens.

What sort of temp variances do you get on your gauge between say:
1- Crawling along in rush hour?
2- On the race track?
3- A fast drive on the motorway on a cool night?
I’d love to know.


Not trying to be rude or a know it all but I still can’t figure out the logic in not running a thermostat on a road car.



Just something you may want to think about
Scott

[jakriz]

Hi Scott,
Sorry, I just pressumed u had a turbo version.
My water temps are excellent, well I think they are. In traffic, regardless of summer or winter the highest I've seen is 86d, then if I turn my thermo fans on I can drop it 10d in about 5 minutes. I was told that a thermo fan on both sides of my radiator , one pushing air, one sucking air wouldn't work as the fans would work negatively against each other. Not true.
Fast driving on the Freeway which is everytime I drive to the track as I have to leave before the sun comes up it just sits on 80d without the fans on, in summer it sits on about 84d sitting on about 80mph.
On the track, which was one of my biggest concerns about the conversion my water tamp won't go over 90d with the fans on & my oil temp has only got as far as 85d with no external oil cooler & thats in 35d Aussie summer heat, 5 x 2 minute laps at a time on boost the whole time. Oil pressure is 80psi plus all year round. I also have 2 radiators for the intercooler, one 300 x 300mm one next to the gearbox, the other a 600 x 300mm alloy one sitting in front of the radiator with it's own 9 inch thermo fan & water spray for the track to lower inlet temps.
I was given the advice not to use a thermostate by someone who does conversions for a living but I also checked with my engine builder as well before doing so. My 2 mates that did their conversions at the same time are also not running thermostates either with no ill effects. It seems to make sense to me, but then alot of weird stuff does
I'm just about to crack 30,000klms with my conversion & i've driven it through snow, flogged it on the track in summer & winter & also driven it though 30cm of flood water, whilst still taking the kids to school in the morning & getting close to 38mpg. It's working a treat.
On another note, I also use 15/40 weight oil on the street & 20/50 on the track, contrary to popular beleif suby engines don't like thin oil, especially for the track, thats how they do big end bearings which is quite common.

Have u had your car on the dyno yet Scott, would be interesting to see what the twin cam 2.5 puts out at the wheels.

regards
Jak

[VW1302RSi]

Hi Jak

Originally Posted by jakriz

I was given the advice not to use a thermostate by someone who does conversions for a living but I also checked with my engine builder as well before doing so. My 2 mates that did their conversions at the same time are also not running thermostates either with no ill effects. It seems to make sense to me, but then alot of weird stuff does

With out trying to sound like a know it all prick I hope you didn't pay for that advise.

But seeing as I don't know everything (as my wife points out) I decided to ask a few professionals,
So I called a service manager of a Toyota dealership I know who is an A grade mechanic with over 40 years in the trade and playing with race cars, and he agreed with me but gave me some grief for asking him a question I knew the answer for. But as we both could be wrong I wanted to confirm so I wanted to asked a 3rd party. So I left the warmth of my office and went down to the workshop and asked some of the qualified mechanics there what they thought and they agreed with me, but I thought they would.

We just can’t see any reason why you wouldn’t run a thermostat, unless it was to overcome some other problem?

Originally Posted by jakriz

Have u had your car on the dyno yet Scott, would be interesting to see what the twin cam 2.5 puts out at the wheels.

Yes I have had my car on the dyno it’s a EJ25 SOHC not a DOHC and as I don’t like talking about power figures as it always end up sounding like fishing story’s, and it depends on the dyno and the correction methods used, sae, din, temp correction bla bla bla.
It has enough for the moment.


Scott

[jakriz]

Like I said Scott, 30'000k on the conversion, driven daily & flogged on the track with Porsches. if it aint broken, don't fix it.
Each to their own.
Just can't understand why u would ask your local toyota dealership advice about a wrx engine in the back of a 71 beetle?
Good luck with yours.
regards
Jak

[VW1302RSi]

Originally Posted by jakriz

Like I said Scott, 30'000k on the conversion, driven daily & flogged on the track with Porsches. if it aint broken, don't fix it.
Each to their own.
Just can't understand why u would ask your local toyota dealership advice about a wrx engine in the back of a 71 beetle?
Good luck with yours.
regards
Jak

Fair comment Jak if it isn’t broke don’t fix it.

It wasn’t the Toyota dealership I was asking, it was the man at the dealership I was asking, he’s raced every thing from Karts to Sprint cars including an old F1 Cooper Climax and a Subaru Speedway Saloon.

But hell all I was saying was I don’t understand why you wouldn’t fit one, that’s not knocking your car or how well it goes, I’ve heard lots and lots of good things about how well you car goes on the track and 30000 Ks speak for it’s self

No disrespect for you or your car, I guess I was just knocking the man who recommended you ran with out one.

Scott

[What-r-u-doing]

Hello

Under the orders of scott i deleted my post LOL, only cas hed tell my mum on me.

But Jack he is a good mechanic, but i'm better HAHA

Phil

[VW1302RSi]

Thanks for that Phil

I’m sure every body on this board wanted to know my history, well your inaccurate version anyway. How about you remove this post, I’ve pissed Jak off enough with out you helping.

Jak, sorry about Phil’s comments, he can’t help it he was born in Naenae, the biggest ghetto in Wellington and his mum didn’t love him.

Scott

[Rob]

Man, I envy you Super guys for the space you have up front

Scott, do you happen to have a pic or schematic of all the breather hoses ?
How did you hook al those up ? Especially the connections to the left of the throttle body ? I think these are the crankcase ventilation ?

See pic (Arrow 1 and 2).


Also how did you mount the MAF / air intake plumbing ?


Thanks!

Rob.

[VW1302RSi]

Originally Posted by Rob

Man, I envy you Super guys for the space you have up front

Scott, do you happen to have a pic or schematic of all the breather hoses ?
How did you hook al those up ? Especially the connections to the left of the throttle body ? I think these are the crankcase ventilation ?

See pic (Arrow 1 and 2).


Also how did you mount the MAF / air intake plumbing ?


Thanks!

Rob.

Hi Rob.

I reversed my inlet manifold and removed all the old vacuum and crankcase ventilation hoses and re-plumbed them.

I’ll try and describe how I have done the inlet, vacuum and ventilation plumbing.

I rotated the inlet manifold 180 deg and have an air filter mounted on the throttle body, I will be making an airbox that sits above the inlet manifold soon.
My map sensor is mounted in my aftermarket ECU this gets it vacuum via a rubber hose from the top of the manifold.

The only other small vacuum hose I have goes from the fuel pressure regulator to the manifold, this can be seen near the dipstick in this picture you could use this source of vacuum for your MAP signal (it would depend on what sort of EFI system you are using)

http://vw1302rsi.multiply.com/photos/photo/1/45

I have a Bugpack type oil breather box mounted on the fire wall (see pic above) this has one hose coming out each end and they run down to each cam/rocker cover vents, then the other vent in the breather box runs to the crankcase breather point. (Number 2 in your picture)

I will be making a modification to the crankcase breather system, once I have built my airbox, this will place another breather hose from the crankcase breather to the airbox, between the throttle body and airfilter, make sense?

If not tell me and have another go.

Scott

[Rob]

Thanks Scott, that clears it up.

I'm using the original MAF sensor (and the original ECU).

One more question if you don't mind. Arrow #2 is the crankcase ventilation, but what is #1 ?

Also, would I need a PCV valve on the crankcase vent ?

(I guess that's 2 more questions )

Thanks ! Awesome car by the way.

Rob.

[VW1302RSi]

Hi Rob

Originally Posted by Rob

Thanks Scott, that clears it up.

I'm using the original MAF sensor (and the original ECU).

One more question if you don't mind. Arrow #2 is the crankcase ventilation, but what is #1 ?

Also, would I need a PCV valve on the crankcase vent ?

(I guess that's 2 more questions )

Thanks ! Awesome car by the way.

Rob.

I'm not sure what that hose #1 is, with out seeing more and knowing just what model engine you have it's hard to tell, also they may have different emissions systems between NZ and the US or Canada. Maybe you could take a few more pictures wider angle and e-mail them to me at vw1302rsi@yahoo.com.au and I’ll see what I can do.

As far as a PCV valve goes- do what you want or what the law will allow you to do. If you are venting the crankcase or rocker cover vents into the manifold after the throttle body the PCV valve is important.
If you are venting it into the hose between the throttle body and the airflow meter it shouldn’t be an issue unless you are by passing the air flow meter with lots of air.

PCV stands for positive crankcase venation so if you went in to the air cleaner or the inlet pipe its not positive as there is no vacuum sucking the fumes out. If it is vented into the manifold with a PCV valve then you need an inlet into the crankcase and this needs to be filtered. The factory did this on the Subaru engine I have by connecting the rocker cover vents to the air filter housing between the filter and the throttle body, if it had a air flow meter it would be between the meter and the throttle body, so any air travelling through the crankcase was measured. On my car that pipe number 2 in your picture went to the PCV valve in the manifold and to the inlet ducting before the throttle body, from memory I think?

But remember that turbo cars have pressure in the manifold at times so they are slightly different in the plumbing.

Also oil vapour lowers the octane rating of fuel so you may not want to vent it into the inlet system.

At the moment the ventilation system on my car is an open type, but when I add a breather hose to the air cleaner all the fumes will go in to the inlet system and be a closed type but it won’t be a positive type, make sense.


Thanks for the comment about the car.


SW

[VW1302RSi]

Well this weekend I had my second failure (read break down) since doing my conversion, the first failure was caused by brain fade in the design of my fuel system, I concluded as Subaru only have a fuel filter at the engine and not at the tank I would do the same, 1- I forgot that Subaru have a strainer sock at the tank and 2- After steam cleaning the tank to clean it before welding the fuel pick up in, may just cause it to rust if I refit the tank and don’t fill it up for 6 months, so my first major break down was with in 2 weeks and cost me a new fuel pump.

So a few weeks ago we decided to go over to Martinborough in the Wairarapa for a night away somewhere nice,,,,,,,,, ok I had nothing to do with it- my wife decided, how ever I managed to convince my mate and his wife to join us as well. Well we went over Saturday just gone the trip over the hill was ok, managed to leave my mate behind in his beetle, not his fault, I managed to jump a few more cars than him , including the slowest car on the road that day, so after a few stops to check out the craft shops yawn, have coffee, find lunch it was time to check in to the motel, very nice girls were happy, more coffee and after noon reading yawn the boys were bored so of we went for a drive in my car.

We headed off towards the cost in search of some nice driving roads, were we in luck, after 2 minutes we were flat out in four and I mean flat out, she would not go any faster, typical VW you say well, in her defence there was a head wind and it was slightly up hill, I couldn’t quite get the Speedo needle to touch the back of the needle stop, it just sat over the generator light.

That is were it all went wrong I suggested that on the way back my mate could take a video of the Speedo etc, well a few miles up the road during some lovely hills and turns we found out that the car was too low, thru a series of “S”sss
I was hard on the brakes turning slightly to the right getting ready to turn in, as I crossed over the centreline and the camber of the road and started to turn in then there was this awful scraping noise as we bottomed out, After a quick look in the mirror I could see a cloud of blue smoke,
A quick look at the gauges and I still had oil pressure?,
It was like tyre smoke?, but then I hadn’t locked a wheel?,
Then there was a bit of white smoke?,
All very confusing until another check in the mirror showed this dark line following us up the road, we quickly pulled over and found that we hadn’t holed the sump but we had ground the right hand side cooling pipe and hose on the road, the blue smoke was the rubber hose skidding along the ground, the white smoke was the coolant on the exhaust. From the time we touched the road to we stopped it must have been less than 20 seconds, and 70 meters.

After some cursing and then thanking the gods it wasn’t the sump, or that we hadn’t spun in the coolant, we cobbled up a repair and toped her up with the 1L water I carried for such an emergency, it dawned on me later that this was a waste of time as she holds over 10Ls of coolant and there was at least 6L of that on the road.
So off we coasted down hill looking for a farm or a puddle, we passed a few puddles but I wasn’t quite prepared just then to fill her with that ****e, I’d rather drink it than put it in my car, then a farm and we were saved, well after convincing the farmer I wasn’t taking the piss and did need water for my old Volkswagen Beetle. We filled her to the brim with this brownish rain water that was only slightly cleaner than the puddles, well at least it didn’t have lumps in it, we bleed her up it was back to the motel to explain why we took so long, effect a less cobbled up repair and try and get the smell of coolant off me, so we could have a nice dinner with the girls, So after all it wasn’t the sump that was the problem, well so far it wasn’t. It’s now time to repair it correctly and build a front skid tray that will keep me out from under the wife’s feet for a few days.

Scott

[VW1302RSi]

After the coolant loss the other month it was time to build a skid tray.

After it’s been on the car for a few weeks it’s showing a few scrapes but is doing its job of protecting the hoses.

Scott

[VW1302RSi]

Hi all

Just a few pictures from some trackdays, my friend and I attended in our Beetles, mine is the white 1302s and his is the red 1969..

One of the trackdays was held at Taupo were they held the New Zealand round of the A1GP.

What a awesome track http://www.fcr.co.nz/track1.pdf the others have bean held at Manifield http://www.manfeild.co.nz/images/track.jpg in the Manawatu in the lower North Island.

At Taupo we had another Beetle join us this car is a 1303 with a full race 2.8L T4 with a 911 box.
The red Beetle has a Toyota 4Age in it.

Check out http://vw1302rsi.multiply.com/ as I have posted some pictures and videos there.


Scott.

[VW1302RSi]

And some more pictures from Taupo