Niksail plating

[rustbucket]

I was searching around the net, and I found several sites that advertise Niksail plating. Apparently, alot of small engines run niksail plated parts (atv's, dirt bikes, etc..). What caught my attention was the price. It is extremely cheap. Now I know it's not the same as nickies, but would there be any benefit to having this done to a T1 or T4 engine? The three guys I talked to quoted no more than $350 for a block and 4 cylinders. It piqued my curiousity at best.

Opinions? Charles, care to weigh in.

Not looking to downplay the value of nickies BTW, I know they are a completely different animal. Just your opinions on this type of plating and the benefits of it.

[Massive Type IV]

Most motorcycles that use it, as well as snowmobiles are two strokes and have lubricated fuels.

Charles and the Nickies designers went through hell finding the right people to plate the Nickies cylinders. I was always the guy that did the test work and I must say that some companies absolutely sucked in the early days of Nickies development.

If its cheap, there is a reason! If you plate a cast iron cylinder or any time you use a Nikisil the ring properties need to change and so do the running clearances of the piston/cylinder.

There is way more to it that having them plated, throwing some rings on and driving... Its a severe learning curve that can be very expensive.

BTW, what on the "Block" were you going to plate?????

[rustbucket]

I wasn't planning on plating anything. That was just the service they offered when they quoted the price. I only asked them because it seemed outrageous. I'm expecting $1000 or so per cylinder, and I see $50. As for it being cheap, well I know you get what you pay for. If it was going into my car, it wouldn't be based on price, but quality.

I was under the impression that Nickies were more than a coated cast iron cylinder. Might be wrong on that, I mostly skimmed Charles' site, as I don't have a need for them. But from your response Jake, it seems that was at the least how they started. I'm not trying to re-engineer the wheel here, I was just wondering if this plating (niksail over cast iron) was viable for larger air cooled engines (once again,thinking Nickies were more than Niksail/iron), or any size engine, although it appears to work okay for 2 strokes (I'm familiar with the differences in fuels). It seems to me that putting anything as a coating over the iron would limit heat dispersion. However, I'm basing that on experience with powder coating, not metallurgy. So, I wouldn't see any benefit to it, hence the question. If that is the basic design of a Nickies cylinder though, I guess I'll have to do some research on metallurgy (and disregard my ignorance).

[Massive Type IV]

Nickies are made from a Billet Aluminum extrusion of particular alloy and heat treat- Not cast iron.
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I was under the impression that you were going to Plate a cast iron cylinder??? That works, but you don't get the benefits of the aluminum cylinder properties and its ability to shed heat faster that iron.

[cnavarro]

There are many variations in platings, and if you were to use the platers I use, it runs 204.95/cyl, if no other operations, such as boring, are required. If sealing surfaces need to be repaired, it runs $36/cyl, and if other repairs are required, you're going skyward. I was having a discussion with a dirt bike shop owner about nikasil and he informed me that most stock bike cylinders have a sprayed on coating that is honed, kind of like porsche's early flame spray cast iron coating for aluminum cylinders (ala p356, 547) If one were to do it in europe, it runs about 50% less than here in the states, but there is not concern about high sulfur fuel, etc, and warranty converages vary too. One company in the states offers a one year warranty, where my plater gives a lifetime warranty. Coating cast iron will get you a slight reduction in friction, and in something like a stockish application, near infinate cylinder wear. Expensive for cheap cast iron cylinder tho....

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

[Mark the canuck]

I’m in Canada and wanted Nickies, but by the time taxes, duties, etc. are paid they do get a bit spendy. I’ve got full machining capabilities so I thought making a set would only be my time.

Charles is being totally up front with the cost of plating, a Canadian company offers nicasil plating, it’s $230 per cylinder IF you’re a business, if not it’s $300 each. Then you have to buy the billet, you can totally forget about trying to get the extrusions that LN uses. Don’t know if they even offer a warranty.
By the time you buy the material and have it plated you “may” save a couple of hundred bucks AND this does not count for your time machining, let alone the cost of your lathe, mill, special jigs and tooling, mistakes, etc.
Also equal quality pistons will cost you at minimum the same and you will also have a hard time getting the studs, etc.

In the end you will find that LN’s products are an excellent (and proven) deal for the money. Trying to do it yourself is just a waste of time.

BTW after all the research I did I ended up buying Nickies (103’s) and they are frickin works of art…almost a shame to put them on an engine.

[mikko k]

I also bought Nickies (103's) from Charles. And I had a lot of taxes, ect too.

But these are real art, real beauties, real quality! Also real shame to use, but I have to! Great Cylinders and realy light.

[brianwheelies]

if you look at most of Suzuki's four stroke engine's they are nickasil plated cylinders. i had a dr350, 350 aircooled sohc 4st engine with nickasil plated cylinders which i bored to 385. the cylinder was sleeved in a material that i'm not sure of and an aluminum cylinder itself. so, there are plenty of 4 strokes with nickasil liners.