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  #16  
Old January 28th 2013, 19:32
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Moog Moog is offline
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Alright - I couldn't leave it for the evening, but since it's cold in the garage, and I dislocated my thumb at the weekend (don't ask...!) so can't wield a spanner, what better way to spend the evening than in the kitchen with some Carbon Wrap...

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(o\ /o) '73 GT Beetle with 2.1 WBX (owned since 1990)
(o\ /o) '74 Jeans Beetle (owned since 1986)
(o\ /o) '67 Zenith Blue Beetle (needs lots of work..)
'02 Passat Sport Diseasel Estate ("Das Boot")
'05 Seat Leon FR, chipped (Mrs Moog's toy really...)
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  #17  
Old January 29th 2013, 00:45
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looks good. hey, even with a non-working thumb your getting something done still. may not be a lot, but progress IS progress.
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  #18  
Old January 29th 2013, 04:57
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Bogara_ZO Bogara_ZO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
Regs state a maximum of a 6x15" wheel, so will be fun getting big calipers & discs inside them
Hi,
Nice build, keep up the good work!

Just an idea: if you sell half of those brakes, you can easily buy a 6 pot tarox caliper that is plug and play for beetle spindles and fits under 15" as uses 278mm vented or solid rotors, your choice. In extra it works with the stock m/c, a caliper weights less than 1,5 kg (less unsprung weight) and huge variety of brake pads can be used.

I haven't driven mines yet, but there are track guys here who are happy with them.
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  #19  
Old January 29th 2013, 04:57
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Wally Wally is offline
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Nice collection of calipers! From what I've seen, the very early Boxster 2.5ltr rear calipers use 20mm thick and 282(?)mm diameter disks with the monoblock calipers and those have been used in 15" Fuchs (as the only solution for that size/shape wheel).
Maybe the Teledial is a little wider inside?
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  #20  
Old January 29th 2013, 13:34
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Bug@5speed(US) Bug@5speed(US) is offline
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Very nice, reminds me of the interior on my old E46 ZHP package 330..

Very cool
Alex
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  #21  
Old January 29th 2013, 15:09
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Moog Moog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogara_ZO View Post
Just an idea: if you sell half of those brakes, you can easily buy a 6 pot tarox caliper that is plug and play for beetle spindles and fits under 15" as uses 278mm vented or solid rotors, your choice. In extra it works with the stock m/c, a caliper weights less than 1,5 kg (less unsprung weight) and huge variety of brake pads can be used.
TarOx is an option. I have the TarOx 6-pots on vented discs on the front of the WBX GT and agree they stop well and bolt-on. On that I have mk3 Golf GTi calipers on the back on Porsche 914 discs. I used an Audi 90 master cylinder which I think was 20.64mm bore, so up from the standard 19.05mm.

On this car the rear arms & discs are early 944 and since I've got this nice collection of Porsche calipers it would be a shame not to at least try them. Having done a quick mock up I think I can get the 996 / BoxsterS calipers in there - they clear the 6x16" Boxster rims I had them planned for originally before I decided to go racing with it.
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(o\ /o) '73 GT Beetle with 2.1 WBX (owned since 1990)
(o\ /o) '74 Jeans Beetle (owned since 1986)
(o\ /o) '67 Zenith Blue Beetle (needs lots of work..)
'02 Passat Sport Diseasel Estate ("Das Boot")
'05 Seat Leon FR, chipped (Mrs Moog's toy really...)
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  #22  
Old January 29th 2013, 16:33
1303C2/3 1303C2/3 is offline
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Beautifull cars. I always wanted to own, build a Jeans Bug in semi street racer look. But coudnt find a good one. İnstead I found a 72 bug ex. semiauto. And since 5 years I'm toying around with it. Here my 72 next to my Squareback
But when I saw yours I know I still want a Jeans. İn my opinion Jeans are already half way there to the GL look theme. Germanlook from the factory Emden.
I see you ve been running on K-jet injection for a while. I always wondered how the golf gti Kjet unit would perform on an 1.7 to 1.8 L aircooled engine. Would you mind sharing details of your K-jet setup.
Keep up the good work with the Jeans.
Cheers
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  #23  
Old January 29th 2013, 20:03
flat flat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
Nice collection of calipers! From what I've seen, the very early Boxster 2.5ltr rear calipers use 20mm thick and 282(?)mm diameter disks with the monoblock calipers and those have been used in 15" Fuchs (as the only solution for that size/shape wheel).
Maybe the Teledial is a little wider inside?
Correct Wally, the Boxster (non-s, aka blacks) are the hot setup.
I've done few setups under 15" wheels:
Front: Boxster black fronts calipers with 944 hubs and 911 carrera rotor
Rear: Boxster blacks rear calipers with 944 rear rotors with radial adapters

The problem with the Boxster S is that there isn't a small enough rotor in diameter that matches the caliper (intended for 28mm rotor) that will fit 15s

Lanner
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  #24  
Old January 30th 2013, 13:14
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I'm a little confused about the rear calipers. The red ones (a pair) i know to be off a 996 (same as a BoxsterS?), while the Grey one (i have just one) is a 2.5 Boxster. They are exactly the same casting, just with the pad pins in different positions to accomodate either a 20mm disc or the fatter 24mm disc. I had heard from elsewhere about the early Boxster calipers being a much smaller caliper, so assumed my grey one was a late one and so bought another set from a '97 Boxster, only to find they were exactly as the grey one i have here. (Thankfully the Porsche breakers were very nice and took them back ) So I have been unable to identify an early Boxster caliper.

I had originally made up a mounting block for them as fitted to the stock 944 20mm rear disc, but then purchased some BoxsterS 24mm discs - these moved the caliper inboard about 3mm and also they are a larger diameter so a spacer there was needed as well. Even though the diameter is larger (282 -->299), moving them inboard slightly means they look like they will fit better inside the wheel due to the inner profile of the wheel. We shall see. I need to mock it up with the A-arm and wheel/tyre on the chassis with a wing on the body to see if i can run any spacers.

I will of course be using Lanner's "Swan" cable adapters and tubes that i purchased last year all very efficiently - Emailed from UK in the morning, paid for by lunchtime, received from across the Atlantic in 2 days - Top service
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(o\ /o) '73 GT Beetle with 2.1 WBX (owned since 1990)
(o\ /o) '74 Jeans Beetle (owned since 1986)
(o\ /o) '67 Zenith Blue Beetle (needs lots of work..)
'02 Passat Sport Diseasel Estate ("Das Boot")
'05 Seat Leon FR, chipped (Mrs Moog's toy really...)

Last edited by Moog; January 31st 2013 at 19:23.
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  #25  
Old January 30th 2013, 13:33
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Bogara_ZO Bogara_ZO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
TarOx is an option. I have the TarOx 6-pots on vented discs on the front of the WBX GT and agree they stop well and bolt-on. On that I have mk3 Golf GTi calipers on the back on Porsche 914 discs. I used an Audi 90 master cylinder which I think was 20.64mm bore, so up from the standard 19.05mm.
That is a nice setup. Are you happy with the balance? I'm planning to go with 944 NA rotors + sliding calipers on the back, not sure if it will work ok. Will keep the discs (20mm thick) so if any upgrade is reuired I have limited possibilites.

Good luck with this project.
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  #26  
Old January 30th 2013, 17:12
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Moog Moog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogara_ZO View Post
That is a nice setup. Are you happy with the balance? I'm planning to go with 944 NA rotors + sliding calipers on the back, not sure if it will work ok. Will keep the discs (20mm thick) so if any upgrade is reuired I have limited possibilites.
The TarOx/GTi/914 setup works well - pulls it up sharp when old folks pull out from side turnings while I have i'm giving it a bootful...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1303C2/3 View Post
I see you ve been running on K-jet injection for a while. I always wondered how the golf gti Kjet unit would perform on an 1.7 to 1.8 L aircooled engine. Would you mind sharing details of your K-jet setup.
The K-jet engine was my first foray into injection. If i recall correctly i bought a complete setup off a 1600 Mk1 GTi. Manifold was from a '78 injection Beetle. I machined the top off the plenum, welded on a plate, and fitted the throttle body off an 1800 GTi, so twin progressive and big rather than the stock Beetle small throttle body. I had to weld a new linkage on the other side of the throttle body, and mounted the cold start injector between the throttle body and the alternator. K-Jet injectors went in where the original electronic injectors went, clamped in place with some modified valve spring retainers. Metering head bolted to the fanhousing and some home-made ducting linked it to the throttle body. Cold start injector was controlled manually from a dash switch.

Engine was 1679cc (thick wall), stock sized valves but a gentle porting job, 9.5:1 compression, Engle 120, counterweighted crank, 9-pound flywheel.

The injection system worked brilliantly from day1. Loads of power, but good fuel consumption on the daily trek to work. I never measured the power but I took it to the GTi festival at Avon Park Raceway in '94 and whooped the standard GTi's on the 1/4mile. It would top out at an easy 110mph on the 4.375 gearbox.

There were only a couple of problems: The standard Beetle injection manifold ends flowed well to a point then hit a wall, so the power was good until it maxed out on the flow and then just wouldn't go any further; Also the Engle 120 had perhaps too much overlap so the pulses back up the inlet tract upset the K-jet flap at idle making the idle a little bit rough. I managed to play a bit with some damping in the plenum and improved it a bit, but then decided that actually the idle wasn't that bad really.

I put it together in late '93, installed it New-years eve, and took it out for its first test drive in the Snow. I immediatly got pulled by the Police wondering why i was out going fast and sideways in the snow on new-years eve, so they assumed i had been drinking. I was let off when i showed them the engine and promised to slow down. I ran it for a while in the Jeans before it moved onto another engine, then I sold it in 2001, and it turned up last October on a 1776 with Engle120 on eBay. The guy selling it had been running it for 4 years having purchased the whole engine from the guy I sold it to. It was still working well exactly as I built it.
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(o\ /o) '73 GT Beetle with 2.1 WBX (owned since 1990)
(o\ /o) '74 Jeans Beetle (owned since 1986)
(o\ /o) '67 Zenith Blue Beetle (needs lots of work..)
'02 Passat Sport Diseasel Estate ("Das Boot")
'05 Seat Leon FR, chipped (Mrs Moog's toy really...)
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  #27  
Old January 30th 2013, 22:12
flat flat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
...So I have been unable to identify an early Boxster caliper.
The regular Boxster (non-s) caliper will have part number starting with '986'.

Lanner
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  #28  
Old January 31st 2013, 04:09
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Moog Moog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flat View Post
The regular Boxster (non-s) caliper will have part number starting with '986'.

Lanner
That is the problem - I spent months last year trying to find that caliper. None of the Porsche breakers I spoke to can find a rear caliper like that. I trawled eBay and Porsche swapmeets as well. Every early 2.5 (non-S) caliper I have seen that is set up for the 20mm disc is exactly the same casting as the S, and the only difference is in the pin setup for different thickness discs. This includes grey/black rear calipers removed from a '97 base model Boxster, which I thought should have been the 986 caliper. I heard from several people that there is an early base model 986 casting but just couldn't find any - were there different ones for different markets? Have you got a picture of the 986 caliper so I know what I am looking for?

Not to worry really - I had a play last night - I got the 996/BoxsterS caliper on an S disc fitted inside the 6x15 Teledial with just a 5mm wheel spacer. It's tight but it's in there and the tyre/wing clearance with the 5mm spacer should hopefully be fine.
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(o\ /o) '73 GT Beetle with 2.1 WBX (owned since 1990)
(o\ /o) '74 Jeans Beetle (owned since 1986)
(o\ /o) '67 Zenith Blue Beetle (needs lots of work..)
'02 Passat Sport Diseasel Estate ("Das Boot")
'05 Seat Leon FR, chipped (Mrs Moog's toy really...)

Last edited by Moog; January 31st 2013 at 05:52.
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  #29  
Old February 3rd 2013, 10:10
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Jadewombat Jadewombat is offline
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K-jet is one of the easiest systems to convert with. It just adapts to airflow, you set the mixture on the control meter (by turning it with an allen wrench) and idle adjustment on the throttle body--that's it. I used it on a T-4 engine and on a 1600 dual-port, both with early Golf systems ('75-79, not even a computer used--just pressure based) using Weber progressive manifolds (the throttle body base and bolt pattern are identical to late Mk1/Mk2 VWs). Smooth, easy to work with, set it once and forget about it.

http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=114309
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  #30  
Old February 6th 2013, 17:30
spannermanager spannermanager is offline
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Hi moog, glad to see you getting on with things, the easiest way to set up front to rear balance is with bias pedals, or at least, the more forgiving way, otherwise, for a serious circuit car at least, its probably best to overbrake the rear, then you can add i bias valve to tune the set up for dry running with a setting around the mid point of the valves range, that then leaves you scope for optimum wet/rain bias with more to the rear, some like a rotary valve, i prefer a lever type for quicker more positive selection on the fly, down side is they can be knocked out of desired position unnoticed, put the valve where it can be seen, not behind the seat,,, dont ask,,,. its also important not to overbrake a track car because brake temperature controls Tyre temperature, bugs need all the help they can get with that aspect, especially with the front, its a big problem on long tracks, tho' not many are left thanks to nanny state ways, thank heaven for thruxton.. good luck with it, Johnny.
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