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  #1  
Old October 29th 2009, 17:07
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rambo1303 rambo1303 is offline
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adapting/machining drum to 5x100 brakes and wheels

Im gathering information about adapting VW GOLF brakes .
there are probebly two options :
The first is to machine a new hub that its outside should fit the Golf brake rotor and the inside should be machined to the beetle spindle in the front or stubs in the rear , the hub is going to be studded to a 5x100pcd brakes or what ever rotor dimantions you are planing on using.

the second option is to machine a regular beetle drum to the Golf rotor inside diamantion then stud it in the 5X100 pcd.

the advantge of the first option would be that you can ditermine the offset of your wheel by the way you machine your own hub too your wheel to fit under your fender.
and you can detrmine the matirial to make it, probebly some sort of aluminum ,so you get less mass redusing bearing friction.
its disadvantge would be its cost and the fact that you need to plan the hub from scratch.

the advantge of the second option is probebly that i would cost less and take less time to make.

for both options you would need to make brackets out of scratch.

I have two things I havent figured out ,the pcd on beetle drum is 4x130 the golf is 5x100 , where is the best point to drill the drum in order not to get a too weak of a hub ,and not to get the circular mass disturbed.

I know the best solution would be to get blank drums but im tring to keep low costs because im from Israel and you can only get here new drums on stock 4X130 so ordering from CIP and such would not be cost affective.

ok thats it im sorry for the long post , If any one have some information to add I would really apriciate it!
THANKS

p.s
im posting on thesamba.com forums also
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  #2  
Old October 29th 2009, 19:37
seangfy seangfy is offline
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lanner at vee dub enginering he sells it all i just bought a kit using the r32 312mm rotor and the gti caliper great stuff also orderd driled drums from so cal imports

http://vdubengineering.com/products/brakes/golf.htm
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  #3  
Old October 29th 2009, 22:29
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Lanner good work and a good guy
His kits are simple and save you work.
Also good quality and sturdy bits
Alex
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  #4  
Old October 30th 2009, 09:17
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Whilst I don't doubt the quality of Lanner's kit the question that I would ask is much more fundamental:

Given that you will have a free hand in the choice of systems why choose a sliding caliper with an integral handbrake? the sliding caliper is a cheap (production) method of providing a caliper. It has nowhere near the performance of a twin pot or 4 pot or even 6 pot caliper. The parking brake method of clamping the disc is again a cheap production method for acheiving a parking brake and it has some serious disadvantages namely 1) the mechanical advantage is poor compared with a drum brake and 2) the heat generated can cause a false parking brake application that on cooling release that friction so that brake is non-operational. My wife very often failed to engage the parking brake properly (not for the want of trying) on our previous Audi (same caliper) resulting in a few embarrasing moments on even slight gradients. I have never been confident that the sliding caliper with parking brake mechanism can perform adequately on the rollers.

I would and have chosen a rear brake that incorporates a drum brake for the parking brake and a separate caliper for the disc(rotor). For a VW the classic arragement is Porsche although I could see others like BMW and Opel working.
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  #5  
Old October 30th 2009, 17:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bug@5speed(US) View Post
Lanner good work and a good guy
His kits are simple and save you work.
Also good quality and sturdy bits
Alex
I second this....Give Lanner a ring, he'll have the solution for you.

Pete
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  #6  
Old October 30th 2009, 20:44
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Thanks for the good word guys.

It is possible to redrill stock 4-130mm drums, and turn down the OD to match the VW rotor. Stud for M12 and it'll be gravy. The offset increase will be 6mm (thickness of rotor mounting face).Here's an idea of what I've done in the past:

It's pretty low-buck and the caliper bracket isn't too difficult to make to attach to stock drum backingplate holes.



It's pretty low-buck and the caliper bracket isn't too difficult to make to attach to stock drum backingplate holes.

Cheers,
Lanner
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  #7  
Old October 31st 2009, 12:04
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Exclamation

Lanner

I have visited your homepage , your products look great they give motivation to begin my project.
I love the idea of beeing diffrent when it comes to modifications ,as a matther of fact the 944 brakes conversion is practically impossibole in my country because that car was never imported here and the DMV dont alow to import used brake components . using golf brakes is actually the best option.

Im going to be using your drowing!

Thanks
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  #8  
Old November 1st 2009, 08:43
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Hi Lanner
I have another question if you dont mind reaviling your secrets ..
what type of aluminum are you using for the hubs?

Thanks
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  #9  
Old November 11th 2009, 17:59
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Sorry for the late reply, your question slipped under the radar....

I use 6061-t6. Keep the sections generous and it'll do the trick. Similar is property to cast 356-t6 which is what Porsche uses.

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  #10  
Old November 11th 2009, 19:29
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Hi

I've had two Beetles with 944 hand brakes and one with the Golf style sliding calliper.

The handbrake with the 944 brakes will hold the car on a steep hill, you need to engage the handbrake, and let car lurch a little and then reapply it, as an emergency stopping brake you would get better retardation by opening the door and putting your foot on the ground LOL. I had new brake linings fitted on both cars and they were adjusted correctly. It is easy to drive off with the handbrake still applied, it makes that little difference.

I'm not sure if this is caused by the Beetle handbrake lever being the wrong ratio, but on my new 1303 I'm planning on using the complete 944 set-up using the 944 lever and cables, hopefully this will help this problem.

Does anybody on here own Porsche 944 and would like to comment on the handbrake effectiveness?

When I used 914 rotors with Golf slider callipers my handbrake could lock the rear wheels at speed.

Steve
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  #11  
Old November 12th 2009, 03:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C View Post
Hi
Does anybody on here own Porsche 944 and would like to comment on the handbrake effectiveness?
Steve
I owned a 944 for 9 years and the hand brake always worked. It would hold in any situation.

I also built/own this. Complete 944 drive train. 944 hand brake installed to the left of the drivers seat, same as the 944. Hand brake works excellent.



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  #12  
Old November 12th 2009, 06:52
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That car is SICK!!!
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  #13  
Old November 12th 2009, 07:52
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Hi

Nice car MR badass. That answers a question, so to get a 944 handbrake to work effectively the Beetle handbrake ratio needs to be altered.

I have converted me daily 1303 to 5x100, I'm using BBS wheels from a Subaru on it, the Subaru centre bore is fairly small so I had to really cut down the Beetle grease cap on the front to fit inside the Subaru centre bore, the grease cap also pokes out a fair bit as well.

Steve

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  #14  
Old November 12th 2009, 08:55
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The 944 parking brake on our 1303 with beetle handbrake lever works well when set up properly. However, it is very easy to miss the guide at the hand brake end with the cable and that gives a crap parking brake. It took me a little while to figure out what was going on as I had too many variables (modified bits) in the system. Even when I thought I had put the cable in the guide it would somehow jump out leaving me in the same situation as I started with - careful attention to its installation solved the problem.

Clive
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  #15  
Old November 12th 2009, 15:30
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Originally Posted by evilC View Post
The 944 parking brake on our 1303 with beetle handbrake lever works well when set up properly. However, it is very easy to miss the guide at the hand brake end with the cable and that gives a crap parking brake. It took me a little while to figure out what was going on as I had too many variables (modified bits) in the system. Even when I thought I had put the cable in the guide it would somehow jump out leaving me in the same situation as I started with - careful attention to its installation solved the problem.

Clive
Thanks guys. More here at my web site. http://www.badassdubs.com/

I do have to agree with Clive. Something was probably set up wrong.
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