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  #121  
Old December 16th 2006, 15:05
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Hey Mike,

Glad to see you are still at it. I admire your persistance and courage in taking on all these changes. Car is looking good, keep us posted !

Rob.
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  #122  
Old December 16th 2006, 15:50
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Originally Posted by wrenchnride247 View Post
Check out www.hok.com for some good info on lots of products.
Is that the right website? I saw a bunch of buildings. I'll do a search after I get home later tonight.

Thanks Rob, It's been a long, long road but there is an end in sight. I just have to work harder.
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  #123  
Old December 16th 2006, 21:59
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Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
Is that the right website? I saw a bunch of buildings. I'll do a search after I get home later tonight.

Thanks Rob, It's been a long, long road but there is an end in sight. I just have to work harder.
Oops! Sorry Mikey . Its: www.hokpaint.com
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  #124  
Old December 17th 2006, 17:47
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I'm nowhere close to being an expert on paint and bodywork, but I now know far more than I ever wanted to about the craft. Wrenchnride has the right idea. When you apply your filler directly to bare metal you will get the best adhesion. On my car, I rubbed the spots to be filled real good with 80 grit to give the filler a good hook into the surface.

For primer, you can use Urethane based 2K primer, or Epoxy primer. 2K primer is good high build material. Most can be applied to bare metal, builds up good to give you some sanding room, and dries flat with no orange peel to sand out. Epoxy primer can seal out moisture, most will apply to bare metal, and can be bondoed over if needed. A friend in the biz recomended http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/ for their epoxy primer. He said it is user-friendly for DIY projects, and high quality for professionals. They're semi-local too, so you'll be supporting Georgia's private commerce sector .

If your car's got a lot of small low spots to fill, or metal/filler spots to be blended you can use Dave's favorite primer, Evercoat Slicksand which will build extremely high, and dry hard. I found out it's often used to repair hail damage, and door dings. I used it on about 80% of mine to make sure I filled all the small creases and dings, and to blend the welded repairs I did. It works great in place of blending putty, but dried with an orange peel that needed some dry sanding.

Just don't use a self etching primer. Anything polyester based (most fillers, some surface primers) won't stick to it. The stuff I used dried very slow for some reason, and was a pain to remove from the areas that needed filler. Actually, by removing it from places that needed filler really works against the purpose for using it in the first place, which is to seal the bare metal.
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  #125  
Old December 17th 2006, 19:35
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By no means do I want to start an argument, but the idea is to share our experiences/thoughts right? With that being said....

I personally would not put filler directly on bare steel. Filler is pourus(sp?) and can actually absorb moisture, which would be undetectable to the eye, causing rust later in the car's life. Personal experience we used an Etch primer on CLEAN, Oil free metal(even natural skin oil, like when you touch the metal with your bare hands) to eat into the metal. After that we used a good quality Epoxy primer. The above two layers were put on as 'wash coats'(ie. VERY thin coats). The car was left for a few days to 'cure', to make sure ALL sovents evaporated etc. After that we used filler. I have seen cars come back with paintjobs not older than 4 months were filler started to lift, and upon closer inspection, I found that no Etch primer or Primer was used.

Then again, this was my personal experience/s...
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  #126  
Old December 17th 2006, 20:59
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Zero, sharing is what these forum's are for . I'm sure there are some companys that may say apply there filler over primer, but Evercoat does not (unless its just glazing putting). If your bare metal is prepped correctly 36-80 grit sand scrathes, pre cleaner used, then a quality filler applied, sand, epoxy prime, sand, primer sealer, base coat, (mid coat for some jobs) and then clear coat. There should be no moisture, and no filler coming off depending on how thick the filler is (too thick and any filler will come off). It sounds like some prep was missed on the jobs you saw this happening on (that's 90% of paint failures, plus incompatable materials from different companies)

I use House Of Kolor paint products (15 years now) and Evercoat products (6 years). Both companies recommend applying filler to bare metal. I've used PPG, Diamont, and BASF products for a few job's as well. Across the pond there are different laws that require different proccedures... such as using water based products as much as possible (except clear coats)

Personally, why would I want to change the way Jon Kosmoski (founder-painter) of House Of Kolor explains how He's done it for 50 years in several book's He's published about Paint and body work .

I'm not arguing... just stating facts
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  #127  
Old December 17th 2006, 21:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroaxe View Post
By no means do I want to start an argument, but the idea is to share our experiences/thoughts right? With that being said....

I personally would not put filler directly on bare steel. Filler is pourus(sp?) and can actually absorb moisture, which would be undetectable to the eye, causing rust later in the car's life. Personal experience we used an Etch primer on CLEAN, Oil free metal(even natural skin oil, like when you touch the metal with your bare hands) to eat into the metal. After that we used a good quality Epoxy primer. The above two layers were put on as 'wash coats'(ie. VERY thin coats). The car was left for a few days to 'cure', to make sure ALL sovents evaporated etc. After that we used filler. I have seen cars come back with paintjobs not older than 4 months were filler started to lift, and upon closer inspection, I found that no Etch primer or Primer was used.

Then again, this was my personal experience/s...
I was actually told the same thing...The guy that painted my Triumph said he recomends laying down epoxy primer first,..then using filler.

Polyester can bond to epoxy primer better than bare metal, and WAAAAY better than it can bond to etch primer. The metal will always be sealed from moisture by the etch primer, and epoxy.

I didn't know this 'till I was finishing out my filler work on bare metal with the rest of the car covered in etch primer. Had I known filler would stick to epoxy, I would have gone from treated bare metal, to etch primer, to epoxy primer, to filler, to final coat of primer, to wet sand, to paint. Instead, I just left the epoxy primer out of the formula, and applied filler to bare metal treated with wax and grease remover.
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  #128  
Old December 17th 2006, 23:46
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My rear fenders were very bumpy. So it was hard to sand all of it, I'd just get the high spots. So I took a wire wheel on a angle grinder. The rest of the fender I used 80.

I started skiming it tonight. I'm really likeing the way it looks. I went to bare metal. I used something called Final Klean, I think that's what it's called. To wipe it down before I applied the filler. The guy I work for has painted cars before, I have his help. I just wanted a second opinion per-say.

We epoxyed our '47 but when we sanded looking for low and high spots we sanded through a lot of it, even though some stayed.
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  #129  
Old December 18th 2006, 01:41
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wrenchnride247,

Thanks for the input. Sure, the forums are for sharing, it is just a precaution I do (most of the time) to try not to sound like a wise@$$

I understand that those guys have done it for like 50 years without problems. And if didnt work, they will not be where they are today... Maybe they have got some kind of rust preventative additive in their fillers that aids in anit-rust, that is all that I can think of. Or maybe over here, we dont realy have such good products
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  #130  
Old December 18th 2006, 11:57
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Its all good zero :agree: . But wise@$$ is one of the many services I provide
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  #131  
Old December 19th 2006, 00:32
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But wise@$$ is one of the many services I provide
haha, I want a shirt that says. "Sarcasm, another one of the many services I offer" Or something similar.

I guess it's okay to put filler over high build. Better be, cause I did it. Oh well, the rear fenders are looking good so far. I realized something, I have 1 really nice fender on the front and 1 really nice fender on the rear, they are my second attempt. The first of the front and rear both don't look as good as their mate. They're passable, just not as good as my second try. What's worse, they're not on the same side

A good point I noticed, I think good, the car can be divided up in three major sections. To be finished 1 section at a time if need be. The rear clip, roof, and front clip. I can't forget the interior too.

The car as I see it, the fenders will be the most time consuming, the top is a strip, check for level and paint, the rest is a little of both. A few dings here and there, but over all the fenders are the most. Both doors are finished, along with the front hood, the rear hood will be strip to bare metal, hammer and dolly a lot, then probably skim for level ect. The deck lid looks horrible up close.

Another day tomarrow, I'll be working til 5pm tomarrow and wednesday. Then all day thursday, friday, saturday, and maybe some sunday. I don't have any plans.

Thanks for the help guys.
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  #132  
Old December 19th 2006, 10:05
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Keep at it Mikey.
Thanks for the update - that is a big project you are doing!!!!!
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  #133  
Old March 18th 2007, 19:14
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Hello every body!!! I've been one busy beaver lately. I started at a Fab shop working 10hr shifts plus hanging at Tim's at night. I've been trying to work on my Ghia on weekends. I lost my cable to connect the camera to the computer, so I havn't posted any pictures. Until now...
Long over due shots, I'm way past this point. I'll need to update soon.




Just a few more...
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  #134  
Old March 18th 2007, 19:20
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Here are the REALLY NICE seats Dave hooked me up with.

Here they are on the ride home.

Here they are in the car, I LOVE them!


More pictures...
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  #135  
Old March 18th 2007, 19:29
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From the front. Don't they look soo good? Well, they could if you could see them.


Since I'm on a picture posting rampage. Here are the new seats I put in my daily driver. They're out of a early 90's ford or something. They were free, so I can't complain.

They are a nice ride.



I'm going to have to catch the thread up with all the work I've done to the front fenders and the fire wall between the radiator and trunk area.

More pictures later.
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