Coil Over Comment In Feb 04 Volks World Mag

[SuperRSi]

In the Feb 04 Volks World column Walkerbout, page 21, there is an interesting commentary on the right column. It is talking about the failure of a coil-over conversion and the resulting litigation. Does anyone know which system this case is about. I am curious if it is the Red9 system on the front of my Manx.

I am most interested in what failed and why. I am still at the stage of building where I can help reinforce things with ease. This will not be the case in several weeks.

Any factual knowledge would be great.

Thanks

Randy

[Alex]

This is interesting.

Alex

It is most likely about the home made conversion that I have strongly suggested gets done by a professional race shop.

I hate to be the rude one here but I'd rather that than loose one of you guys. These ball joints, wheel bearings, springs, etc. that we modify are crucial componets.

[Alex]

Randy,

check out this thread.
I do believe that the trailing arms are forged though.


http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthr...ght=red9design

Alex

Okay I read the above thread and to be honest this is something that H2OSB pointed out to me several years ago when I was looking into how the 944 guys adapt 935 spring plates and coil-overs to their cars. It was a point well taken and since I've not really be interested in doing that but there are rear coil-over kits on the market for 944's that I have yet to hear about failure.

[MattKab]

I'm holding back using rear coil overs due to the shear and bending loads on the top bolt. Standard is looking favourite.

Superman, Do the Porsche 951 coil-over conversions simply also rely on the standard M14 1.25mm bottom bolt? I once tried to remove a bent bottom bolt from a very very crashed S2. The rear arm had fractured at the hub flange. I would use these bolts top and bottom. But still mulling over just going up a size in rear torsion bar.

At Vanfest last summer, I introduced myself to Simon Red9. I raised a few concerns to the man regarding the tb front coil-over kit and I respect his answers to my questions. Not my cup of tea but then I'm a Super Beetle driver. His mates cal-look 'test car' looked mint, but not driven daily/hard regularly. This car's front 'kit' was frequently pulled and inspected by himself.

I unduely ended a good thread on here when I voiced my concerns about such a kit being used on a 'daily road' weight torsion bar T1. Sorry if I offended anyone and I think I indirectly broke the product bashing law of GL.com and stayed away for a while

I spend many hours of my working week under rusty Volkswagens and as a tester for the MOT Vehicle Inspectorate, I'd deffinatley have an issue with this idea being used on a T2, atleast. I'd refuse to fit similar to a customers ride and I'd refuse to test a vehicle presented with such a conversion.

Matt

[Alex]

There are things though one need to consider:

A lot of the off road guys are using setups that bolt onto the lower shock mount as well. Others use air suspension without any problems.

I heard the concerns and I am not going to fab my own lower trailing arm which will have a different shock mount with the help of VDubCustoms.
I was thinking of getting adjusters welded in but Lanner was right in saying that this will not address the possible issue of it failing.

Once we have something made I will take some pics of course.

Alex

[Alex]

Matt,

when did you unduely ended a good thread on here when you voiced your concerns about such a kit being used on a 'daily road' weight torsion bar T1. and thuought you indirectly broke the product bashing law of GL.com?

I was looking at some past threads and I can not see on how you have offended anyone or broke some rules.

Every concern should be stated and discussed in a good manner....which I believe we all do here.

From the rear coilover point of view.....it has TUV approval in Germany. It was also used in the Käfer Cup. The main concern of the rear coilover is the upper shock mount. FAW coilovers actually come with a brace that bolts into the springplate and the top shock mount.

Alex

[SuperRSi]

Well, I guess after looking at all this, I will still give the kit a try. My application is a tube frame Meyers Manx. As much as we are trying I do not think we can get the front weight up to even 600 pounds. We have been trying to balance the car by moving some things forward. So with new lower arms I will not worry. I still would like to know whether there are any real lawsuits and what happened in the crash. Maybe later after the smoke (& mirrors) dies down. I appreciate the imput.

Thanks,

Randy

I looked into the technical details more of the 944 conversion and found little on the web but one kit did state, "the rear coil-over conversion is to be used in conjuction with the tornsion bars".

If it's the bolt that seems to be the weak point then, as MattKab pointed out, then it should be upgraded and as Alex said the design has proved itself well in off road racing applications.

[Alex]

Matt,

btw....I believe that the lower shock bolt of a 944 Turbo is M14 x 1.5.

I tried the 1.25 one and got lucky that the thread insert in the al arm is extremely hard so that it ruined the bolt and not the thread.

James,
If the Porsche guys use the 935 spring plates then they can not use torsion bars anymore with the coilover.

Alex

[kiwivw]

Alex,

Do you have a link or picture of the FAW coil-overs. I've not heard of these.
Especially the upper shock mount/brace.

[boygenius]

Originally Posted by Superman

I looked into the technical details more of the 944 conversion and found little on the web but one kit did state, "the rear coil-over conversion is to be used in conjuction with the tornsion bars".

If it's the bolt that seems to be the weak point then, as MattKab pointed out, then it should be upgraded and as Alex said the design has proved itself well in off road racing applications.

I think I read somewhere that you grind off the splines of the torsion bars and just use them for a guide for the spring plates.

Originally Posted by Alex

James,
If the Porsche guys use the 935 spring plates then they can not use torsion bars anymore with the coilover.

Yes, sorry Alex, I should have worded it better. I wrote, "one kit did state" when I should have said, "one of the kits" and assumed that it's known that you can't have one without the other, thanks for clearing it up for those that don't know.

[Alex]

Craig,

here is the link. Maybe if there is enough interest it could be our next group deal. They are not cheap though and it still uses the torsion bars.
Rear Coilover

James,

no problem. That M14 bolt is pretty big and strong. There should be no worries with it without running the torsion bars.

Alex