Twin Turbo is on it's way!

[lazylongboarder]

I decided on the twin turbo 2.0 liter subaru motor and ordered it on Friday. I've been debating on whether on going with an inline 4 then i decided against it after seeing a honda b16a in the back of a bug and it looked HORRIBLE! I didn't think that it would stick out so much. The next runner up was the rotary 13b. After talking to some tuners that work on both subaru and rotary, I decided i didn't want to deal with the rotary's unreliableity. In the rotary's defense, they are light weight and have the ability to get some high horse power #'s but anything over 250 with a 2nd generation motor compromises the longevity and especially with a JDM motor, it wasn't reasuring.


Subarus on the other end of the reliablity spectrum have a great record for being long lasting. In 2003 they had the least amount of lemons and returns of any other car company. And even beyond that, in 2004 they were "the most reliable manufacturer of motor vehicles" according to consumer reports.
That helped persuade me on choosing the EJ20TT, but it didn't tell me about the performance of the motor. Looking at the light weight 4 cylinder motors I had to choose from, the subaru seems to be the logical choice being a horizontally opposed four cylinder like the car came with. And with a performance track record like subaru and the ability to get 300 hp reliably out of a 4 cylinder motor for the mass market is pretty incredible. 600 hp is very possible and 1200 hp has been done before with these motors. Xcceleration.com has a method of sleeving the block that will give the motor the ability to withstand 50 psi reliably!

My plans for the motor is to lose the twins and put a single T3/T4 with a turbo smart 38mm ultra-gate, weldon fuel pump, 50 lbs injectors, and run it at 10 psi around town and 18 for fun. Running 10 psi will get roughly 290 hp and 18 psi will pull 395 hp. The reason why i'm losing the twin turbos is only because of the ability to have good boost control. When, not if, but when the motor blows from running it at 18 lbs I'm gonna go with a 2.5 liter fully closed deck block Je pistons and i'm still deciding on the rods. I'll Cryo treat the block and crank, and run 25 lbs which is about 470 hp and bump it up to 33 lbs that will make this motor scream at 540 hp on race gas.

One of the U.S.'s longest most technical tracks ever is going to be finished in the next month in Toele UT. About 45 mins. away from orem, where i live. So the car MUST be over kill!

The motor will be mated up to a 6 speed G-50 so 160 mph won't be a problem getting there, just keeping the car on the ground will be a challenge. Wish me luck!

If anyone is interested in converting their EJ20T (220 hp) into an EJ20TT (276 hp), let me know @ epikelectronics@hotmail.com. I'm thinking $200 sound fair.

[libila]

Cool! I wish you the best of luck on your project.

Where are you planning on putting the radiator and intercooler?

Are you going to push the motor and tranny up so it's more mid-engine for better fitment and balance?

What kind of suspension and bracing do you/will you have?

[lazylongboarder]

Originally Posted by libila

Cool! I wish you the best of luck on your project.

Where are you planning on putting the radiator and intercooler?

Are you going to push the motor and tranny up so it's more mid-engine for better fitment and balance?

What kind of suspension and bracing do you/will you have?

The radiator and intercooler will go behind the front seats in front of the rear fenders. I'm going to use a 3 row aluminum radiator, and 4'' thick intercooler so the dimensions don't have to be to large.

I'll move the motor and tranny up as far as I can enough to retain a good angle on the CV's and still have the stock wheelbase.

The rear suspension will be a multi-link double wishbone setup from a 993. I'm going to tie everything into the 14 point cage, including hanging the rear suspension assembly. Mid engine would be nice but I couldn't use the 993 setup.

[ricola]

Originally Posted by lazylongboarder

The radiator and intercooler will go behind the front seats in front of the rear fenders.

Speaking from experience and being on conversion forums for years; please reconsider fitting the radiator in the back! You will need natural direct air flow and LOTS of it to cool anything like the power you are talking about producing...

Rich

[Wally]

FYI: In the 'VW Speed' magazine of this month, there's an article in there on a street 1303 with an EJ20T engine and it doesn't give a clou from the outside at all!
He didn't cut anything on the front, just put the radiator behind the stock (slotted, the us-airco-version) front apron...Looked very slick!
Trans was a 915 with a manual (non hydraulic) clutch...

Greets,
Walter

[Racelook]

Lot's of suc6..

I hope you stick to your plan, and are not somebody with an big mouth spreading your big plans and than over an year hearing that your selling your half finished projects that still is an messed up bug with nothing.

Sorry to say.. but this is what happends so often.

Keep up the good work

Wiebrand

[lazylongboarder]

Originally Posted by Racelook

Lot's of suc6..

I hope you stick to your plan, and are not somebody with an big mouth spreading your big plans and than over an year hearing that your selling your half finished projects that still is an messed up bug with nothing.

Sorry to say.. but this is what happends so often.

Keep up the good work

Wiebrand

After putting so much into my brakes and chassis I can't sell it... really, no one else wants brakes like mine because they are "OVER KILL". Especially since I've got 3000 into the brakes and I just have a bare chassis, 944 aluminum arms, and full front suspension.

There is no way I will ever sell this car. It's my first car and I'll give it to my son if I ever have one or leave it to someone in my will. I'm thinking way into the future but back to the motor talk.

Xcceleration.com is putting 18 lbs of boost into the stock ej20 motors which translates to 395 hp on pump gas. which is amazing to me because every other shop i've talked to says the motor will throw a rod through the case or detonate at 330 hp. It's some thing I can't wait to expiriment with. Outback motors says you need $10000 into the motor to get it to 300 hp and it has to be on race gas. This is according to mack.

As far as putting the radiator and intercooler in the rear quarters, It's been done before without a scoop. I'll have an over sized air to air aluminum race intercooler designed for 600 hp from PWR as well as a liquid to air aftercooler just on the intake to make the charge supa cool. The radiator will be an oversized 3 core aluminum unit that will also be from PWR. Both the intercooler and the radiator will have dual 1600 CFM electric fans. On the outside of the body there will be side scoops if the fans aren't getting enough air to them. I like the look of vents on the side of a T1.

The purpose of this car is not for show, only to be crazy fast at any cost. This is only the first motor that i'll get the car tuned with and make sure everything is working the way it should, then i'll make the monster 33 psi motor.

Xcceleration.com also has "T" sleeves that give the block the ability to handle 50 psi! Overkill is the plan... maybe this'll be in the distant future if i get tired of only running in the 10 second bracket :yawn: .

[volkdent]

Get an STI motor then tweak it. Manufacturers have to have reliability built into their products, aftermarkets don't, so start with the most power you can find STOCK then start getting bigger.

Jason

[lazylongboarder]

Originally Posted by volkdent

Get an STI motor then tweak it. Manufacturers have to have reliability built into their products, aftermarkets don't, so start with the most power you can find STOCK then start getting bigger.

Jason

That's exactly my plan! I'll use the EJ20 long block until it blows up then take a STI block, close the deck, add T sleeves, Forged pistons and rods, use my heads, port and polish, 5 angle valve job, titanium retainers, dual valve springs, titanium valves, GT35 ball bearing turbo, 255 ltr fuel pump, 960 cc injectors, turbo-smart 38mm waste gate, and other fun goodies to get 500+ hp.

The only weak link to the STI short block are the pistons and rods. They can handle 500 hp, but not reliably. And especially trying to get those figures on pump gas 91 will be close to impossible. My cell phone bill is rediculous this month just because I speak to so many subaru tuner shops and ask advice. The majority of the shops will tell you to start out with an EJ20TT (because of the better heads compared to the EJ20T) or STI motor then when either of them blow, close the deck, put rods and pistons in and add on to the heads over time.

The reason why I went with the EJ20TT over the STI engine is because comparing the prices; 950+shipping to the STI's 4800+shipping, and the 24 extra horse power wasn't worth the extra $3850. Also, a complete replacement motor through nippon motors is only $650, so i'll throw as much boost as I feel like without worrying about destroying difficult (read expensive) machine work, internals, block, ect. like it would be like if I was building up a T1 or T4. It seemed like the logical choice to get things on the car sorted out through time then add to it. It didn't make sense to me to put the star destroyer motor out back before i had the suspension dialed in and every thing totally tight and true (HA, like 350 isn't enough in a bug).

Ok heres the bill as I see it:
EJ20TT-875 shipped (amazing deal)
Single turbo conversion:
Header from Outback-400
Wastegate-250
T3/T4 turbo-400
Fuel rails with 50 lbs injectors-400
Fuel pump-150
Haltech EMS-1150 with sensors
Haltech coil packs and ignitors-200
Plumbing-200

$4025= 400 hp $10.06 per horsey

I could skip the single turbo conversion and stay with the twins and get 320 no problem, which i'll probably end up doing then do the swap, then blow the motor, then get the STI shortblock.

Oh well, I hope everything goes smoothly.

Next step...multi-link rear suspension from a 993.

[jonas_linder]

How does the stock TT header(s) look ??

I want pictures!

[Racelook]

Originally Posted by lazylongboarder

There is no way I will ever sell this car. It's my first car and I'll give it to my son if I ever have one or leave it to someone in my will. I'm thinking way into the future but back to the motor talk.

Good to hear!!

Suc6 Wiebrand

[kiwivw]

Who are you buying the motor from?

[lazylongboarder]

Originally Posted by jonas_linder

How does the stock TT header(s) look ??

I want pictures!

Hopefully I'll get the motor tomorrow or monday, then I'll update ya'll with a bunch of pictures of the headers and disassembly process.

The thing that really tempts me to keep the twins is that since they are sequentially controlled, power from the little turbo (really small T2) starts to kick in at 1800 rpm! I've seen dyno sheets of this motor putting out 280 pound feet of torque at only 3300 rpm with only a piggy-back ECU, intake, and exhaust!

I'll be using a fully programable sequential Haltech EMS. This gives me the ability to adjust boost,air/fuel ratios, timing, idle speed, launch control ect, at any rpm at any time with my laptop. Meaning if the motor runs lean at 6250 rpm and rich at 6900, I can adjust the air/fuel ratio at the seperate rpm's to get the perfect 14.7 pressure, and also beyond that, I can set the timing to retard even more and more with more boost at higher rpm's... so basically, yeah everything is adjustable. Motec does the same thing for $2000 more, Do I want the name? Or do I want to finish the car before i'm thirty :shrug: ?

The bet is still on with some friends and family that i can't get the car done by July 15th 2006... so Russell has no life and no money to spend on his girlfriend for the next 10 months . I even cut down on the booze to get this car done :haveadrin !

[71superbug]

Just to clarify..a rotary is not unreliable if looked after..just like any car.

secondly, you CAN put the radiator/radiators in the back.

a design i might be doing, which is the same as ian swinkles is to have two litle radiators from PWR. one under each rear fender with a fan on each.

ian swinkles runs this setup with GREAT success. and very little cutting required compared to mounting it up the front.

good to see antoher conversion on its way though.


Anthony

[bean_8044]

Dont mean to threadjack, but you have any more info on that radiator setup? Ive pretty much settled on cutting out the area behind the back seat and installing a 31" 2core aluminum, but it would be nice to leave that area intact.