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  #76  
Old February 13th 2007, 00:02
Veedub Veedub is offline
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Originally Posted by EvilAngel View Post
Yeah, I agree. Anyway, truth is my budget is not for reliable 180hp, at least not at this point. Guess i'll have to stay on the 130 - 140, which is as fast as a 'stang according to AC.net, and that's an improvement from stock!!
Yeah truthfuly my budget for now wont let me build my motor up yet, when my bugs done in a couple months and its on the road I'll start buying 1 part at a time, or 2 depending on the price. But it dont hurt to decide what you want to do to your motor in advance right?
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  #77  
Old February 13th 2007, 00:07
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EvilAngel EvilAngel is offline
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Yes, that's exactly the way i'm doing it....
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1990 Mex-Spec GL Bug "The Blue Flame":
Engine: Planning Stage
Transmission: Planning Stage
Suspension: Front: 3/4 swaybar w/UrethaneBushings, Dropped Spindles. Rear:CB Camber Compensator. Lowered 2 splines
Brakes: Front Brakes: 280mm solid rotors, two pot calipers. Rear: 280mm solid rotors, 1 pot calipers w/ebrake
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  #78  
Old February 13th 2007, 00:18
Veedub Veedub is offline
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just throw up your ideas, what are you wanting, anyway, just curious.
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  #79  
Old February 13th 2007, 07:30
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EvilAngel EvilAngel is offline
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Well, i'm planning the 2007cc setup mentioned above, with minor changes for durabilty. However since i have to pay A LOT for shipping i have to do it gradually. Plus i'm still waiting for my rear discs, camber comp and front swaybar to arrive. when i have all of that installed i will start to buy the engine stuff. I know that after a while, my 2007 won't be enough, and then i'll go for the turbo, and/or EFI. that's why i chose some things to have the turbo later, like I-beams instead of h-beams, etc. Right now im trying to find out what kind of heads i have. If they're 043's i will just P&P them. If they are 040 or 041's, i'd rather get a brand new set ---> $$$
I really like the EFI idea, since i got a carputer, and it would be cool to tune it from the dashboard touschscreen
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1990 Mex-Spec GL Bug "The Blue Flame":
Engine: Planning Stage
Transmission: Planning Stage
Suspension: Front: 3/4 swaybar w/UrethaneBushings, Dropped Spindles. Rear:CB Camber Compensator. Lowered 2 splines
Brakes: Front Brakes: 280mm solid rotors, two pot calipers. Rear: 280mm solid rotors, 1 pot calipers w/ebrake
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  #80  
Old February 14th 2007, 00:29
Veedub Veedub is offline
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EvilAngel, we could go the "simple" route.Small displacement but big power.
forged 85.5 pistons cylenders
C/w forged 69mm crank (74mm possibly?)
stock pushrods
stock cam or cheater cam
1.4:1 forged rockers
forged I-beam rods
044 MAGNUM with 40 x 35.5mm S/S valves, Dual Super Rev Springs, Chromoly Retainers, & Sure-Grip Locks (STD. Bore)
then mat davis or lowbuggets turbokit

I seen somewhere, where there was a 1600T that made 126hp with 10psi, but dont remember where though.According to the guys from the STF forums, the 1600T is very reliable if you dont go out and race it and rev it all to hell and back(but i think thats any motor)
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  #81  
Old February 14th 2007, 03:23
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EvilAngel EvilAngel is offline
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Revving. That's the issue. I really don't want a car that requires a lot of revving to start to show some juice. And, as you say, revving to get power will increase wear, and therefore reduce reliability. That's why i decided to get a stroker. Plus i don't see much point on using 85.5 cylinders, being 90.5 just as reliable.

I understand your point, getting a smaller yet powerful engine. But that means less torque. And torquey engines are by far more fun to drive everyday.

On a final note, not only is the 2007 cheaper to build, but it still leaves room for some improvement in the future, like adding the turbo... If we went the 1600t route, the only thing we could do later (other than fine tuning or adding boost) would be increasing the displacement...
2007cc N/A --> 140hp (guesstimation)
2007 T --->
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________________________
1990 Mex-Spec GL Bug "The Blue Flame":
Engine: Planning Stage
Transmission: Planning Stage
Suspension: Front: 3/4 swaybar w/UrethaneBushings, Dropped Spindles. Rear:CB Camber Compensator. Lowered 2 splines
Brakes: Front Brakes: 280mm solid rotors, two pot calipers. Rear: 280mm solid rotors, 1 pot calipers w/ebrake
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  #82  
Old February 14th 2007, 14:04
Veedub Veedub is offline
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I think I may build a small displacement motor (remember I was a jap car fan) so i like small displacement big power in a way Mostly because the guy thats going to help build my motor does not want to really build a hi po motor.He dont want to be the one put the blame on if something goes wrong with the motor, which I understand.He's known my dad since before i existed on earth :so hes trustworthy, hes like and uncle.
Im thinking either a 1600cc 85.5x69 forged, 87x69 (yes im very aware)
What would a 85.5x74 be? a 1699cc? With a turbo they dont got to rev extremely high to make power which is cool. I think turbo kicks in at 1800rpms with them.
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  #83  
Old February 14th 2007, 17:06
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EvilAngel EvilAngel is offline
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Yes, that's the displacement. And i'd say that it all depends on how you set up the turbo. Lower boost and a wider power band seems the way to go.
BTW, i also had a b15 sentra before, but it was a GSX auto, no performance to squeeze from it. And vdubs are WAY cheaper to mod.
Only thing is that in Mexico no one respects them... but that makes for a perfect sleeper...
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1990 Mex-Spec GL Bug "The Blue Flame":
Engine: Planning Stage
Transmission: Planning Stage
Suspension: Front: 3/4 swaybar w/UrethaneBushings, Dropped Spindles. Rear:CB Camber Compensator. Lowered 2 splines
Brakes: Front Brakes: 280mm solid rotors, two pot calipers. Rear: 280mm solid rotors, 1 pot calipers w/ebrake
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  #84  
Old February 14th 2007, 19:00
Veedub Veedub is offline
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these cars get no respect, hardly from the local import guys here. whats funny is they compare there cars to mine which will be stock.they'll say like "oh my honda civic will kill your bug stock for stock, and even if your bug was built my stock honda would squash it like a bug" i get tired of them im not a street or strip racer but if i gotta make a point i will. i'll just have fun doing it.
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  #85  
Old February 14th 2007, 19:07
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Astromic Astromic is offline
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turbocharging your engine(1600 or 2007) is a bad idea if u seek drivability, first of all you'll suffer from fuel economy because i assume you will drawthru it, and if you blowthru it it will help the mpg a bit but your pocket will suffer then, but don't expect a large improvment in it even with blowthru...
second, you can kiss highway speed goodbye, that's about +70mph, and the only thing that could help this is to pick a bigger turbo, and then ofcourse you will suffer the lag at lower rpm range...
turbo is a tricky project to build, and recuires a lot of planning before buying the parts, or you'll end up frying your engine, but if you intend to run it on tracks only, then turbo is your best choise...

2007 is a good engine for street and track, and expect a lot of fun driving it, and you could even make some hondas smell your exhaust easily.
an ideal mild 2007 engine could make 125hp at the wheels while maintaining a great low end trq, and you could sqweez it up to 150hp but Sacrifice some of the low end...
i'm now changing my 1776 project for a torquey 2007, and still FI it, and will start building it as soon as i finish planning and saving some cash too(i'm a not a rich guy after all )
good luck in your project, keep us updated...
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  #86  
Old February 14th 2007, 20:13
Veedub Veedub is offline
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But I thought turbochargin a t-1 motor increased fuel economy and performance. I read some guys get 20-30mpg but anyways I just want it for the performance factor.Although gas milage would be cool.I would go Draw through, with a carberator since I dont want to go through all the pita stuff you got to go through converting it over and all the pointless money spending since I dont think converting to EFI would increase hp.
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  #87  
Old February 14th 2007, 22:02
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EvilAngel EvilAngel is offline
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I dont think efi would increase (at leastnot substantially) hp from a well tuned carb system. But it does help reliability as it has less moving parts that can fail, and it really improves mileage. Also it opnes a lot of possibilities for fine tuning.
Also if you have EFI & turbo, i don't see why would you suffer from drivability if properly set up. I do think you'll suffer if using carbs + turbo, but this may be negligible if the setup is perfect. I have read in both the samba, STF and VZi of people with small displacement turbo engines and love it... Im just looking for more torque.
__________________
________________________
1990 Mex-Spec GL Bug "The Blue Flame":
Engine: Planning Stage
Transmission: Planning Stage
Suspension: Front: 3/4 swaybar w/UrethaneBushings, Dropped Spindles. Rear:CB Camber Compensator. Lowered 2 splines
Brakes: Front Brakes: 280mm solid rotors, two pot calipers. Rear: 280mm solid rotors, 1 pot calipers w/ebrake
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  #88  
Old February 15th 2007, 11:15
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Astromic Astromic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilAngel View Post
I dont think efi would increase (at leastnot substantially) hp from a well tuned carb system.
it will increase the power, or at least the same power(but not less) more than a well tuned carb, i'm not talking about a huge gain in power, i'm talking about "healthy" increasment of power, in a FI setup you have the fine-tune ability and feedback feature, that you don't have in any carb setup, even if you are a master in carb tuning and rejetting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilAngel View Post
But it does help reliability as it has less moving parts that can fail.
sure, but in other hand it increase the longivity of your expensive engine, beacause you have cleaner mixture without being too lean nor too rich, and both ofcourse reduce the engine life, specialy lean running.
and also when you add ecu-controled ignition like edis, your engine could never be more happier .

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilAngel View Post
Also if you have EFI & turbo, i don't see why would you suffer from drivability if properly set up. I do think you'll suffer if using carbs + turbo, but this may be negligible if the setup is perfect. I have read in both the samba, STF and VZi of people with small displacement turbo engines and love it... Im just looking for more torque.
if you have the ability and knowledge to install a well-built turbo setup, then go for it for sure, but you will have to blow-thru it if you want it to last and also if you don't want to add an extra fuel tank , blow it will make your tuning job easier and you will have the ability of controlling the ignition, and you know it's a must for turbo or you will have a pre-ignition problems, modifing or locking the advance in regular dist. will help, but again not like ecu controlled...
sorry for being a racist toward efi , but when you decide and build it, you will see what i mean...

Michael
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  #89  
Old February 15th 2007, 15:56
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EvilAngel EvilAngel is offline
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I agree with you 100%, that's why i said i'd only get a turbo engine IF i had EFI... Or even without the turbo, if it was affordable. There are LOTS of issues when thinking of a turbo+carb engine, as you point out.

I think we got lost at some point, or were you saying this to VeeDub?
__________________
________________________
1990 Mex-Spec GL Bug "The Blue Flame":
Engine: Planning Stage
Transmission: Planning Stage
Suspension: Front: 3/4 swaybar w/UrethaneBushings, Dropped Spindles. Rear:CB Camber Compensator. Lowered 2 splines
Brakes: Front Brakes: 280mm solid rotors, two pot calipers. Rear: 280mm solid rotors, 1 pot calipers w/ebrake
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  #90  
Old February 15th 2007, 17:34
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Astromic Astromic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilAngel View Post
I think we got lost at some point, or were you saying this to VeeDub?
yes, i was arguing with VeedDub about fuel economy, as he say turbo has more fuel economy potentials.
i was supporting your words, but i just added some other points to yours.
veedub,
i forgot to say, that your turbo will be fuel effecient, only when you are off-boost, i don't know why as i'm not an expert, but i'll assume that because your engine will not make any force to suck the intake mixture, but this will end as soon as you go on boost, so you will rarely see this happens.
a user in STF (i don't remember his name), built a 94x69 turbocharged engine megasquirted with EDIS. i remember that this guy fine-tuned his engine for ages and he did a great job finaly and do have a lot of experience about turbos, he was saying that his mpg was 22 only on combined driving(on-off boost), many users didn't see more with the same setup.
if you can live with this mpg, go turbo, you will be happy with the power, but at least FI it...

Michael
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