Mid-Engine Layout (Not useful)

[drkcreations]

Now, given that a mid-engine conversion or a chassis up build for this is extreme: Given the desire to build a mid-engine BEAST of a bug, I'm curious as to what engine wold be best suited to this purpose? Porsche V6 and transmission? Subaru? Rotary? This thread begs speculation on this topic, nothing more... Also, the ideal would also be for a 100percent tube frame based bug with overlays, right?

-Thorin (72 BusDelux, 73 Super, 01 GTIVR6)

[vujade]

I would go mid engine with a Porsche Tranny & 3.6L Six from a 993

[Shad Laws]

Hello-

For the tranny, the ideal choice would be a G86 - the Boxster's transmission. Get one from a Boxster S - it has 6 speeds :-).

The engine? Well, I guess anything goes. It depends what you want :-). If you want to keep aircooling, go for a T4 or 911/964/993 engine. Note that some modification will be necessary to the G86 bellhousing (not the same as aircooled VW/Porsche), but probably nothing that couldn't be overcome. If you don't care about aircooling, then just about anything goes, I suppose. How about a W8? :-)

[SteveStromberg]

Very simple a Cady 500 ci out of a Eldorado 425 hp for about $500.

[Shadowbug]

I've heard of people using the audi 5000 tranny with some amount of success, mated to v8's all types of engines.

I wonder how a 928 v8 would do powering a beetle

[1303C2/3]

Hello

I would love to build a midengined bug and I believe there are many advantages to benefit from by using the steel Bug bodyshell. If I were to use a type1 sedan body I'd simply swap the all torsionbar type 1 floorpan with a 550 Porsche spyder like tubular chassis frame. There many 550 kit frames to take inspiration from. The bug bodyshell attached to a spyder style frame would help to form a safety cell and could also help to improve the torsional stiffnes of the chassis. Because of the longer wheelbase of the bug fitting a flat six aircooled 911 engine and etc. should be very easy. The body would require to have its rear luggage comp. floor to be cut out and a new firewall behind the front seats to be fabricated. But this would be easier (and cheaper) to do To construct an all new custom spaceframe and a composite body would be quite labour intensive and would cost alot of $$$.
A second way to make use of the original bug body would be to choose the Superbeetle route. The Supers body structurer would lend itself much better as a load carying part of a custom frame body combination. For inspiration look at the 1996 911 GT1 series race cars. With that car Porsche proved that by using the front of a 993 chassis.(extremely modified of course) it was possible to build a world beating midengined race car. When using a Supers body the front could use all late model 944 Brake- Spindle assembly and custom lower A arm front suspension. At the back (middle of the car ) an air cooled flat six or even watercooled one could be fitted. The rear susp could be from a Boxter or some custom double wishbone susp. could be fabricated (like that of a 9111 GT1). I wonder if anyone has used the steel bug body as a load carrying part with a custom chassis application?
And if I hab the means of fabricating my own spaceframe chassis chose the beatiful Ariel Atom style spaceframe. That way any VW Golf (or similar) drivetrain could be used.
I'd say there's enough inspiration at Porsche. Have fun while dreaming.:silly:

[vujade]

one other idea would be to use a boxster chassis & attach the beetle body to it instead of fabricating a custom chassis.

I have seen this done with a 911 chassis & a beetle body.

[1303C2/3]

At the beginning of the '70's there were Supers built which used the VW- Porsche 914 chassis. They were called the Nordstadt Kaefers. Those cars were basicly six cylinder powereded 914's with a highly modified Super Beetle body (welded on top of the 914's chassis platform )
Instead of a heavly modified expensive donor car chassis it would be interesting to use the the steel body of the bug and keep it a bolton onto a custom built midengine layout chassis. The floorpan of the bug is quite heavy and not really very stiff (in torsional stiffnes). Its worth to think about. After all who wouldn't be interested for a bolt on mid eng. replacement floorpan for his Bug body. The supers bodies with their strut towers at the frontend would make great candidates for a custom midengine chassis. Thats just my idea of course! But I'm sure that a super would be very competitive against many modern sportscars (in terms of handling ) if it were midengined (and had a suitable rear suspension).

[beetle1303]

Hi guys,
While I was reading your posts I kind of believed that I was the only one to know about the Nodstadt Kafer, until I red the last reply by 1302 C2/3.
I would like to add some points here.

first off all Volksworld magazine had possibly the only surviving Nodstadt Kafer (from what they said in their article)in its pages about 3 years ago I think. If you want I can tell you excactly next week. These beauties had 914 chassis, gearbox, fuel tank,im not sure about brakes, modified 911 dash, 914 seats and the 2.7 L carrera RS 6-cyl engine (1973 if Im correct). Also they had the side vents of the variant crafted to the side for extra air circulation in the new engine compartment.

I have this specific month edition and from the pictures that are there you can see that the old engine room is now completely empty with a base cover in order to make it a trunk. From what I remember right now the firewall is also gone and the storage space at the rear is really deep towards the front.
Taking that as a big advantage could someone build a wishbone rear supension?add to that a wishbone suspension at the front (I saw pictures of these kind in the galleries under the general section).

I would really like to see who it would handle.

an one off 1303 mid engined with wishbone suspension front and back along with a full roll cage inside for extra safety and strength!!!!!!!

Chris (beetle1303)

[Wesayso]

In german, but interresting none the less: von Autohaus Nordstadt in Hannover gebauter Käfer

[Wally]

Thanks Ronald,
I have an article on one of those cars as well somewhere. Interesting while reading the article is that it says they tried a front spoiler for straight line stability, but it seemed not necessary with that car (remember: 914 suspesion front and rear).
Walter

This should be of interest: VW Fun Cup, specifically this page (in French). Sorry if this has been mentioned already as I will admit I didn't read this entire post.

[Racelook]

WHaaa superman..

That was the link that I needed!!!!! Thnxxx

My car get a bit of the looks of there cars.. only not with the ugly backlights and without hole the ugly front section.

I have almost a year the idea to make a scoop on the roof of the bug en than with selfmade pipes too the engine....
But i havent decides to do this yet because i'm asking myself where they leave the rainwater that comes in the scoop..

SO my question is you do the solve this????

And my second question... It may sound crazy ... but are the holes in the rearfenders to cool the brakes or are they airintkaes to the engine??

Greetings Wiebrand

[Racelook]

bump!!!

Here is the page in English.

The scoop is probably designed like most others with vains for the water to follow. Water is heavier than air so it will stay on the bottom. This should not be a problem.

The holes in the rear fenders could be for cooling the brakes, it's hard to tell from the picture, or they are used in an effort to create a low pressure drag to aid the roof scoop.