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  #76  
Old March 12th 2011, 09:35
Bruce. Bruce. is offline
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Probably a silly question but what's the advantage over the usual 103x71 cast iron cylinders. Can't be much cheaper?

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  #77  
Old March 12th 2011, 17:14
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Xellex Xellex is offline
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I really like the deutz cylinders so I have been interested in them, reading all I could find, so I think I can give a few answers to that:
One of the reasons could be the fact that they have more and larger cooling fins.
Another one is the great length of the cylinders, allowing you to run any combination of stroke and rod length.
Another advantage is the thickness of the cylinder wall, making them very strong, eaven when bored to a larger interior diameter.
Oh, and I hear the casting material quality is very good also... better than that of the usual cylinders off the shelf.
And I'm sure there are lots of other advantages, not to mention the coolness factor of this conversion!
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  #78  
Old March 13th 2011, 09:47
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
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Exactly right Xellex! Not to mention that they are cheaper and it is a mass production product which makes them easier to buy.The cheaper price however is can not be really seen as a reason to buy them,because the amount of machining required equals that out.
These cylinders as you see in the pics can be ran with a 90mm stroke.The length of these are 102,5mm with a 101,65mm bore.The wall thickness is 7mm Remmele runs these cylinders with a 106mm bore and a 90mm stroke in a type 4 case making 3176ccm.
The strength is far superior to JE cylinders or any other cast iron cylinder for the aircooled vw.
The conversion to deutz cylinders have been around for a long time,even with type 1 also.A few have used these cylinders and modified Porsche 911 heads for OHC conversion,like what Holzapfel did.Remmele does most his of cnc work himself now as he invested in some tooling.Since then,he has decided to go with these cylinders again as they have proven to be the best solution for his big type 4s.They are a pain to machine though,because they are extremely hard.
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  #79  
Old March 13th 2011, 14:06
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I think you forgot the ultimate reason: ring sealing. Because they are a stronger design, they stay round better, so ring sealing will be better over time and especially on slight overheating occasions.
All aspects had been mentioned why they are stronger, but not what 'stronger' means to operation
A disadvantage (besides cost due to maching) could be that since they are thicker in some places, the cylinder tends to run hotter. In how far the slightly larger fins help there is difficult to determine.
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  #80  
Old March 13th 2011, 15:17
Bruce. Bruce. is offline
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Dp!

Last edited by Bruce.; March 13th 2011 at 15:25.
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  #81  
Old March 13th 2011, 15:21
Bruce. Bruce. is offline
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Thanks gents. Sounds very interesting.

Been lurking around GL for many years and i'm using your impressive work to help motivate me to finish my stalled GL project.

I have a totally restored and painted shell (4 genuine qtrs, 2x doors, etc, etc) in my garage along with a solid but unpainted pan. Oh and a 901 box

Just need to find the time to assemble.
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  #82  
Old March 14th 2011, 02:19
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
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Git 'er done Bruce! I know exactly what you mean, this project has taken far too long. I'm hoping to get it on the road this year.

@ Wally: you're absolutely right about the sealing.As far as the temperatures are concerned we will have to see. I don't think they will be any hotter than stock cylinders though and the 911 fan should keep the temps down also.
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  #83  
Old March 29th 2011, 13:21
IMPI IMPI is offline
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Hi The reason that deutz cylinders are so good is because they are made from ductile iron. this is a form of cast iron that is also maleable. I once dropped a cylinder and it bent. Being in a hurry I hammered the dent out and re honed it. it was perfect. this translates into the ability to hold boost better
Armand
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  #84  
Old April 3rd 2011, 08:34
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
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We have ground power units at work (Airbus Operations,Germany) with Deutz aircooled turbodiesel industrial engines in them that we use as generators for our aircraft.They run all day at full throttle with 2 bar boost in a confined metal compartment (trailer).I have yet to see an engine failure in the past 11 years I´ve been working there.I guess you can say,that convinced me to use them . The use of Deutz cylinders on acvw is nothing new and was more common in the 80's and 90's.We will see how well they adapt to a turbocharged acvw.The Deutz engines are cast iron blocks,so we will see what happens with an aluminum case,but I am confident that there will be no problems.
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  #85  
Old June 25th 2011, 10:11
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
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Here´s a small update:
I finally got around to shortening the cylinders and machining the heads to fit the Deutz cylinders.My thanks goes out to Remmele´s machinist and mechanic Peter for his time and expertise.They were a real bitch to machine because they are so hard.The first step was to literally knock off a couple of cooling fins,then machine the rough spots down to be able finish the work on the lathe.He installed a new bit,machined the 4 cylinders and the bit was dull or basically trash after that! The heads were of course no problem at all.All together it took about 6 hours to do.
The length of the cylinders are now the same as stock (or very close) of 127.69mm the outside diameter is 115.88,which we did not change.
The next step is to bore and hone the cylinders out for the 103mm pistons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZvlS9BBxxU

yes,we did spray oil regularly on the bit and cylinder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9DZWZnaZX4

Mark
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  #86  
Old February 1st 2014, 21:26
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OK Mark, time for some progress info and pictures...
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  #87  
Old February 2nd 2014, 07:09
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
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Hey Randy!

There´s quite a bit to report since this thread was last active.Randy dug up some bones here! But I´m glad you did! The most work went into the floor pan.It has been reinforced with steel round bar,blasted and galvanized,then painted with a corrosion inhibiting paint used on truck trailers and the a further corrosion resistant paint/compound called Brantho Korrux 3 in 1. I bolted the suspension up,but i still have to do a few adjustmenst so the uni-ball set up lines up properly.Since I have the real wide 944 turbo S2 trailing arms which are 7,5 cm wider than stock IRS and aprox. 3cm wider than the older model 944 turbo trailing arms,I´ll have to shim them at the front mount.I´ve also decided to replace the bearings in them,so I´ll be taking that all apart today.
The front spindles are stock and not modified but have Remmele aluminum hubs that came off of a former Käfer Cup car and the torsion plates/springs in the front beam have been replaced by Remmele´s uni-ball set up.This allows the trailing arms to move independantly without stress on the beam or the other side.The final step will be to incorporate a supportarm for the trailing arms.This will give the 1200 suspension the same characteristic as a double wishbone set up.The "problem" I have at the moment is that the brake caliper adapters don´t fit my big 996 Carrera brakes.Most of the Cup cars back then ran 304mm discs and mine are 318mm,which also has a different offset.So now I am waiting for new adapters to be made. I also started routing brake lines and installed the 944 turbo master cylinder.I will also be installing a brake proportioning valve once the body is on the pan.I also have new 7,5x17 and 8,5x17 Porsche wheels off of a Boxster.I´ll have to shot some pics of those.
I will be completing the engine soon also,I just have to make room first so I can build it in a somewhat sterile environment.Further updates are carbon fiber running boards,widened epoxy fenders front 3cm wider rear 6cm wider.Tires are 215/40/17 and 245/40/17.
I had instruments made from Speed Hut instruments.I am absolutely exstatic about the product quality and service. Autometer doesn´t even come close to these imho.Everything you need is included and all top notch.Even a custom order only took 3 weeks to delivery and that beeing shipped overseas.Fantastic! I will be ordering further instruments also.















I´ll post some more pics soon..
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  #88  
Old February 25th 2014, 08:19
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4agedub 4agedub is offline
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Very nice.
I like your suspension braces at the back
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  #89  
Old February 26th 2014, 01:08
70Turbobug 70Turbobug is offline
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Thanks!
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  #90  
Old July 2nd 2018, 03:48
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