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  #1  
Old August 13th 2019, 13:13
$aint $aint is offline
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1303RS: '75 1303S street/track project

Since 2007 I've been the lucky owner of a 1975 1303S. Since that same year I've been a member of this site, but so far I haven't made a project thread. Figured now's as good a time as any to do so

This is what the car looked like when I got it:
1303RS-as-bought.jpg

The plan has always been to turn it into a track focused car that's still driveable on the street. I still want to be able to drive to and from the track in the car itself and be able to drive around town and the highway with it and not get my teeth rattled out

The focus is mainly on keeping the car light, whilst making sure the suspension and brakes are as good as they can be.
Engine wise for now I'm still running the stock 1.6 type 1, but the plan is a simple type 4 build, probably a 2056. Focus on the engine will only happen once it's running/driving again.

It's been a very slow going project ever since I got it, but I was recently informed that I'll have to move out of my current garage within 2 months time, so a lot more progress was made in the last weeks compared to the 10 or so years before that :P

This is what the car looked like for the last 4 years and still pretty much looks like at the moment:
2014-06-15 21.35.45.jpg2014-10-04 21.30.57.jpgIMG_20190806_203335.jpg

Last edited by $aint; August 13th 2019 at 16:27.
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  #2  
Old August 13th 2019, 15:02
$aint $aint is offline
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The focus is currently on wrapping up the initial suspension and brake setup.
As many other projects the basics are an upgrade to 944 parts, in the front mainly for the ventilated brakes and in the rear mainly for the wider track as well as for being able to use disc brakes.

For now for the front suspension I'll be using early 944 spindles and hubs combined with early 944 struts with B6 sports Bilstein inserts for a beetle (Bilstein P30-0040) which I modded a long time ago with a coil-over sleeve and combined with 60mm Eibach ERS springs (main + tender).
The Bilstein gland nut centers and secures the coil-over sleeve in place.
2014-10-04 18.06.31.jpg

In the end the plan is to use M030 944 spindles and hubs with proper coil-overs for late 944 but I don't have a solution yet for the positive camber the M030 spindles (or it could be it's just late spindles in general) introduce over early 944 spindles and for now I'd also like to keep my stock speedometer. Early 944 spindles with the speedometer cable hole are a lot easier to work with for that

The brakes will probably be Boxster (986) front calipers with 911 3.2 front discs (they are also 24mm thick like Boxster front discs, but a bit smaller in diameter (282.5mm vs 298mm for the Boxster fronts)).
I'm not a big fan of these discs though since they are quiet heavy (5.6kg) and a bit small in diameter so I'm still looking at alternatives.

Last edited by $aint; August 20th 2019 at 06:47.
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  #3  
Old August 13th 2019, 15:22
$aint $aint is offline
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Ever since I started using the 944 front spindles I've been having difficulty getting the front suspension to a point where it has an acceptable amount of camber, with just the stock parts and early 944 spindles and the camber adjustment on the spindles/struts maximum negative I still had a massive amount of positive camber.

This is obviously a know issue with several options to fix it:
- Camber+ kit from Top Line Parts
- Camber plates
- Mod the strut and/or spindle
- Fabricate longer a-arms

I don't really want to modify my strut and/or spindles and whilst I would like to eventually fabricate some longer a-arms I currently don't have enough time for that so I'm going to try the camber+ kit combined with camber plates.

Last week I installed the camber plates made by Silver Project:
IMG_20190804_162104.jpgIMG_20190804_162123.jpg

I expected them to be out of aluminium but they are actually made out of steel so they are pretty heavy, even heavier than the stock mounts (930g vs 640g):
IMG_20190804_170423.jpgIMG_20190804_171624.jpg
So I might look into other options in the future, for now this will do.

Mounted them as well:
IMG_20190804_175902.jpg

After that I set them to full negative which didn't actually give that much extra negative camber (as I already expected, but still )

Unfortunately the floor in my garage is very uneven so I can't really do any precise camber measurements there, so I'm just going by rough measurements at the moment. Hope this will be better in the new location.

Last edited by $aint; August 15th 2019 at 07:46.
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Old August 13th 2019, 16:31
H2OSB H2OSB is offline
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Your car is amazing similar to my '74 (though I'm insanely jealous of your R&P steering). My coil overs are VERY similar to yours. I have 944 housings with a Ground Control coil over kit(I'll try to add a pic from my phone in a bit), running 2.5 inch 120# springs. What are you doing for the rear? I have 26mm 924 upgrade torsion bars on the rear. I found them on the Auto Atlanta site on sale for $100 for the pair, brand new.

My other 1303('73) has 23.5mm 944 torsion bars, with a very similar front set up(but with Raceland coil overs from a VW Caddy...same 120#). I recently ran an autocross with the car (like you, stock 1600DP) and was astonished at how well it handled. It has Topline front and rear sway bars, and felt super neutral. Even in monsoon like rain, it was nearly impossible to break the rear loose. All that car needs is more power. Oh, it has CBPerformnce front and rear disc brakes. Nothing fancy, but perfectly effective. the suspension on that car, on the road, feels sporty but absolutely not punishing.

With the '74, my intent is to run stiffer springs and less sway. I already have the 26mm torsions like I said, but I've not gotten stiffer front springs. I plane to run the stock front sway bar with urethane bushings. On the rear, I have a 15mm 944 sway bar with brackets I made myself (for the torsion housings...I used created pieces and 944 pieces for the endlinks). My hypothesis is the light sways with still control lean but give a little more independence at each corner*.

The brakes on the '74 are stock 944 rear and a hybrid 944/914 set up on the front. Hybrid in that I'm using 944 spindles, hubs and rotors, with the rotors turned down enough to allow spaced out 914 front calipers to actually bolt to the 944 spindles. To space the calipers, I used the spacers from the REAR 911 M calipers, which are the exact same casting as the 914 fronts (but with a 35mm piston). It all seemed brilliant until I had to source bolts to hold it all together. 914 calipers use 7mm bolts to hold the halves together. Go ahead, see if you can find those online. I had to order them from Germany from a company called Tola Tool. They were the only company I could find with the right length AND hardness (12.9). They were EXPENSIVE, and shipping from Germany to California was nearly the same as the purchase price. At least they're socket head and not that silly Ribe style.

Ugh, sorry for the partial hyjack. I started my response with the intent to talking about an idea to deal with the camber issue.

First off, I tried Topline's extra eccentric inner control arm bolts. Then, I bought two sets of VW "crash bolts". Still I could only get about 0 degrees, and I was hoping for -2 to -2.5 degrees. Since you have the same strut housings as I do, you have a slotted top hole(incidentally, the Raceland coilovers I have on the other car have slotted top holes too). One day while staring at one strut any thinking about giving up on using 944 spindles, I realized the flange on the top crash bolts was big enough to limit the amount of camber I could get. I found a camber adjusting bolts made for 944s, by Whiteline(the were actually pretty cheap on Amazon). Suddenly, I had plenty of camber adjustment because the shaft of the bolts is 12mm, and, obviously, the camber bolts are made for the 944. So with the items I described and the Topline extra eccentric inner bolts, I'm able to get quite a bit of negative camber.

However, I have another idea to gain camber, and it goes along with your idea to have longer control arms. Since you have 944 spindles, I ASSume you have Kerscher ball joints. It has ALWAYS rankled me that Kerscher is the ONLY source for those ball joints. There's a company in Germany called Mike's Boxer Service. He got around the ball joint issue by using early Passat ball joints. You just have to remove the stock ball joint cup and do a small amount of side clearancing on the ball joint, then drill two holes. There's a whole thread about this on STFs but I'm too lazy to look it up and link it right now. Bottom line is, you can gain length for the control arm by changing where the holes are drilled (within reason).

That's all I got
H2OSB
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'74 1303, Outlaw sedan (with a GL flavor)
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  #5  
Old August 14th 2019, 13:57
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Wally Wally is offline
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Great intro mate! Is it an non-import original dutch car?
Because of the same color (L91Z I assume) and even the Boxster BBS rims, I also see a great resemblence ;-)
'Wheels maketh the car', hey? :-)

Like John, I also use the Topline caster+ inserts, they work great. Together with the slotted bottom strut hole where I used an eccentric bolt, I also get more then enough camber.
My problem has always been caster, so I used my top bearings to give maximum caster; its still 'just about' enough...even with the caster+ Topline front sway bar grommets..
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Old August 16th 2019, 16:58
$aint $aint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OSB View Post
...

Ugh, sorry for the partial hyjack. I started my response with the intent to talking about an idea to deal with the camber issue.

First off, I tried Topline's extra eccentric inner control arm bolts. Then, I bought two sets of VW "crash bolts". Still I could only get about 0 degrees, and I was hoping for -2 to -2.5 degrees. Since you have the same strut housings as I do, you have a slotted top hole(incidentally, the Raceland coilovers I have on the other car have slotted top holes too). One day while staring at one strut any thinking about giving up on using 944 spindles, I realized the flange on the top crash bolts was big enough to limit the amount of camber I could get. I found a camber adjusting bolts made for 944s, by Whiteline(the were actually pretty cheap on Amazon). Suddenly, I had plenty of camber adjustment because the shaft of the bolts is 12mm, and, obviously, the camber bolts are made for the 944. So with the items I described and the Topline extra eccentric inner bolts, I'm able to get quite a bit of negative camber.
No problem at all regarding the "hijack" Nice to see you're so enthousiastic about this!
I'll post an update/my plans for the rear asap, still trying to figure some things out.

I just mounted Topline's Camber+ kit and it seems like the camber is fine now, still have to do proper measurements somewhere but that'll take some time since the car is now on jack stands again to get a bunch of parts cleaned and plated.

Do you mean these camber adjusting bolts? http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_..._number=KCA412

They seem pretty similar to the H&R Triple C bolts http://www.hrsprings.com/applications/triplec

I actually have a pair of those but haven't tried them yet. Do you still have the stock 944 camber/slot at max negative at the top and then added the whiteline camber adjusting bolt at the bottom also at max negative?

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OSB View Post
However, I have another idea to gain camber, and it goes along with your idea to have longer control arms. Since you have 944 spindles, I ASSume you have Kerscher ball joints. It has ALWAYS rankled me that Kerscher is the ONLY source for those ball joints. There's a company in Germany called Mike's Boxer Service. He got around the ball joint issue by using early Passat ball joints. You just have to remove the stock ball joint cup and do a small amount of side clearancing on the ball joint, then drill two holes. There's a whole thread about this on STFs but I'm too lazy to look it up and link it right now. Bottom line is, you can gain length for the control arm by changing where the holes are drilled (within reason).

That's all I got
H2OSB
That's an interesting suggestion. Did a bit of searching and you probably mean this one https://mikes-boxerservice.com/luftwaffe.php ?
The last picture shows (a part of) the use passat ball-joint.

Seems like that setup is similar to the RX-7 ball-joint (see for example https://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/moog-k9427) where the ball-joint is attached to the a-arm with 2 bolts. I always found that a slightly scary way of doing things, but since it is/was used in factory cars it seems to be safe.

I'll see if I can make something like this happen. Seems to be less work than fabricating a-arms from scratch. Thanks for the tip!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
Great intro mate! Is it an non-import original dutch car?
Because of the same color (L91Z I assume) and even the Boxster BBS rims, I also see a great resemblence ;-)
'Wheels maketh the car', hey? :-)
Thanks! Tbh I don't know if it's an original Dutch car, I still have to order the "birth" certificate for it to be sure.
And yeah, it's atlasweiß as well Initially I wasn't the biggest fan of that color but it has really grown on me over the years and I really like it now. Will definitely stay this way.

And yeah, wheels definitely do kind of make the car and in combination with the color it does indeed resemble some other car
I don't have a sliding roof though

Tbh I have to admit I like the Sport Klassik II's that you're using even more than my current Sport Klassik I's, but that would maybe not the nicest thing to do, they would be very similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
Like John, I also use the Topline caster+ inserts, they work great. Together with the slotted bottom strut hole where I used an eccentric bolt, I also get more then enough camber.
My problem has always been caster, so I used my top bearings to give maximum caster; its still 'just about' enough...even with the caster+ Topline front sway bar grommets..
Yeah, the camber+ kit does seem to work great, seems to give quiet a significant amount of negative camber.

Did you slot the bottom hole yourself? And do you also have a slotted top hole on the strut as well?

Since I was still trying to get the camber in an acceptable range I haven't been messing around with caster yet, apart from using Topline's caster fix bushing (http://toplineparts.com/caster-fix-b...-sway-bar.html), which moves the rotation/mount point of the front rollbar slightly forward. Will measure it when doing the alignment and share the results.
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Old August 16th 2019, 20:11
H2OSB H2OSB is offline
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The picture from Mike's Boxer Service (MBS from here on out) is exactly what I was referring to. I agree it would be a bit sketchy if the ball join body were loose between the sides on the control arm(I want to say I've looked at the RX7 ball joint idea in the past, and I think it has a narrow rectangular tang), but if you were to trim carefully, it would be easy to have it "captured" between the sides of the control arm. The control arm is substantially thicking than one might think when viewed edge on. I also have an additional idea I will detail as I work on my own set. I am committed to the Passat BJ idea, however, as I've sold off my Kerscher BJs in disgust, quite honestly(if someone could explain why a ball joint should cost $54, I'd like to hear it). There's a guy from Romania on STFs who used Passat BJs after discussing it with Mike himself. His car is a driver and has been working well for some time with those BJs(and actually, MBS has been using this method for years without issue.). I'm hoping I can find some other Golf derived BJ of the same design but with a 15mm pin so I can interchange them as I have some MORE front brake ideas I want to explore.

Yes, I used those Whiteline camber bolts. I have a typical "crash bolt" in the bottom. Between all the different adjustments available, I no longer have a camber issue. Not sure about caster. I, too, have the caster fix bushings for the sway bar. The car is not on the road yet, however, so I don't if I have any kind caster problem.
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Old August 16th 2019, 22:26
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Jadewombat Jadewombat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $aint View Post


After that I set them to full negative which didn't actually give that much extra negative camber (as I already expected, but still )

Unfortunately the floor in my garage is very uneven so I can't really do any precise camber measurements there, so I'm just going by rough measurements at the moment. Hope this will be better in the new location.
Yeah, I went with some cheap spherical adjustable top mounts on my 1303 and I think I got 0.5 degrees additional. I don't remember, but it wasn't much.

You can get one of those triangular camber gauges that mounts on the outside of the wheel that will work even with an uneven surface. You just get a measurement of the ground first, roll the car to that spot then measure it and subtract the difference.
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Old August 17th 2019, 06:40
$aint $aint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OSB View Post
The picture from Mike's Boxer Service (MBS from here on out) is exactly what I was referring to. I agree it would be a bit sketchy if the ball join body were loose between the sides on the control arm(I want to say I've looked at the RX7 ball joint idea in the past, and I think it has a narrow rectangular tang), but if you were to trim carefully, it would be easy to have it "captured" between the sides of the control arm. The control arm is substantially thicking than one might think when viewed edge on. I also have an additional idea I will detail as I work on my own set. I am committed to the Passat BJ idea, however, as I've sold off my Kerscher BJs in disgust, quite honestly(if someone could explain why a ball joint should cost $54, I'd like to hear it). There's a guy from Romania on STFs who used Passat BJs after discussing it with Mike himself. His car is a driver and has been working well for some time with those BJs(and actually, MBS has been using this method for years without issue.). I'm hoping I can find some other Golf derived BJ of the same design but with a 15mm pin so I can interchange them as I have some MORE front brake ideas I want to explore.
Cool! I'd be interested in your findings/experience with the Passat ball-joint. If you get something going and want to a thread about it would be nice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OSB View Post
Yes, I used those Whiteline camber bolts. I have a typical "crash bolt" in the bottom. Between all the different adjustments available, I no longer have a camber issue. Not sure about caster. I, too, have the caster fix bushings for the sway bar. The car is not on the road yet, however, so I don't if I have any kind caster problem.
So you're using the Whiteline camber bolts in the slot at the top?
How does that work? I've got the stock 944 adjuster in the top slot at full negative and I don't think I have much if any space left between the spindle's "ear" and the strut housing. Don't think I'd be able to get any more negative camber out of it by using those Whiteline bolts.
Would it also not wiggle around because of the slot in the strut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadewombat View Post
Yeah, I went with some cheap spherical adjustable top mounts on my 1303 and I think I got 0.5 degrees additional. I don't remember, but it wasn't much.

You can get one of those triangular camber gauges that mounts on the outside of the wheel that will work even with an uneven surface. You just get a measurement of the ground first, roll the car to that spot then measure it and subtract the difference.
Yeah, still have a list of tools to get. Some (digital) camber gauges that allow for easy zeroing are on that list
I hope it'll work well enough, the floor is all over the place, so not just off in one direction, might be a bit too much.
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Old August 17th 2019, 13:31
$aint $aint is offline
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Some progress on the front suspension:

Had the Kerscher ball-joints pressed into the a-arms last week. The a-arms themselves were already sandblasted and coated in the past and were still in good shape, no work needed there.
Also weighed the a-arm, unfortunately forgot to weigh them without the ball-joints, but they weigh 1.8kg with the Kerscher ball-joints. Pretty light
IMG_20190808_201408.jpg

Once that was done I assembled the front-end again with Topline's camber+ kit as well as their 7/8-inch anti-roll bar. The anti-roll bar is mounted using their caster fix bushings which move the anti-roll bar's mounting/pivot point slightly forward compared to the stock location. Will have to see what the caster will be when doing the alignment.
The install itself went pretty smooth, the only annoying thing was the grease (everything becomes super sticky! :P) and the anti-roll bar bushings wanted to keep popping out :P
IMG_20190808_202357.jpgIMG_20190808_205120.jpgIMG_20190811_160634.jpg

Camber seems to be a lot better now, its finally negative as it should be
But as mentioned before because of the uneven floor I don't have any exact measurements yet, that will happen later.

For now I'm going to disassemble the anti-rollbar again since all of the mounting parts and hardware are getting sand/pearl blasted and zinc plated.

Last edited by $aint; August 17th 2019 at 13:40.
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Old August 18th 2019, 08:46
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Did you slot the bottom hole yourself? And do you also have a slotted top hole on the strut as well?
Sorry, typo on my behalf: meant top hole. Bottom is of course stock and not slotted.
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Old August 18th 2019, 10:25
$aint $aint is offline
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Your car is amazing similar to my '74 (though I'm insanely jealous of your R&P steering). My coil overs are VERY similar to yours. I have 944 housings with a Ground Control coil over kit(I'll try to add a pic from my phone in a bit), running 2.5 inch 120# springs. What are you doing for the rear? I have 26mm 924 upgrade torsion bars on the rear. I found them on the Auto Atlanta site on sale for $100 for the pair, brand new.
I've been thinking about the rear suspension quiet a bit the last 2 weeks, trying to determine what to do. I'll be using 944 aluminium trailing arms with probably the wider track flanges, maybe the smaller track flanges first since I already have a pair discs for those.
The torsion bars will be removed and replaced with coil-overs. Coil-overs are just so much easier to work with and I expect it'll take a bit of trial and error with the spring rates to get to a setup that I'm happy with, which is a lot easier with coil-overs.
Also that way I could run a slightly softer setup for the street and quickly switch to other springs if I want to do a track run. Not sure I'll do that since I'm lazy, but you never know :P

The brakes will probably be Boxster (986) rear calipers with stock 944 rear discs. These are almost the same as the rears on a Boxster (289x20 for 944 rears vs 292x20 for the Boxster rears). Again not the biggest fan of these discs because they are quiet heavy (6.4kg!) but I'm not sure it'll be easy to find or build something else since the offset is rather large (100mm) and the inside of the discs is used for the handbrake as well.

There are still a couple of things to figure out though:

Which coil-overs to use?
I've been involved with a bunch of motorsport stuff, mainly focussed on suspension and suspension development and I have to admit I've become a bit of a fan of Bilstein.
Their products aren't very expensive (apart from their MDS and 5-way EVO dampers) yet are very well designed and deliver very good performance. Apart from that parts are relatively easy to get and revalveing is easy if you want to do it yourself or not so expensive if you want them to do it.
So Bilstein it is

Then the question remains: Which exact coil-overs to use?
Since I'd like to keep using the car on the street I quiet like the Bilstein 944 Cup dampers because they use rubber mounts instead of spherical bearings. They also can be fitted directly to the top mounting point of the 1303 as well as of course the 944's trailing arm bolt.
Another reason to pick these is they use Bilstein's 46mm pistons which has more options available than their 36mm pistons, making it easier to customize them to how I'd like them to be.

Whilst the Bilstein cup dampers are a known quantity for 944s oddly enough I've been unable to find any information about people trying/using them on IRS beetles.
Since the angle of the damper compared to a 944 is slightly different I wasn't sure if the damper would fit, it could be the springs would rub against the trailing arm.
So I test fitted a pair and whilst it's definitely a tight fit, it seems like it's possible. There's about 1-2mm room between the spring an the trailing arm.
I'll need to massage the body right next to the top mount a bit to create enough clearance for the top hat, but I don't expect that'll be a problem.

I'm also considering using 2.25inch springs instead of 60mm springs. That's the way the Bilstein Cup dampers are delivered in the US (see for example the so called 944 escort cup front and rear set on the Lindsey Racing site and it would give a small amount of extra room/clearance which seems like a good idea.

The alternative would be to use a spacer like the racer's edge bolt to move the dampders away from the trailing arms, although that one only works with sperical bearings, or use smaller (36mm) dampers in combination with 2inch or 50mm springs. The selection of those is a lot smaller than 2.25inch and 60mm springs though.

I'm trying to figure this out this week, make a decision and order the relevant parts.

IMG_20190809_191355.jpgIMG_20190809_191404.jpgIMG_20190809_191439.jpg
This is with KW 60mm springs btw, that's why they are yellow

What kind of system to use to guide the rear trailing arms?
Whilst I do quiet like the uniball setup in that it allows for very easy toe in/out adjustment, after reading up on it and talking to some people I think that for my current purposes it's slightly too direct and will pass through a bit too much noise/vibration/harshness.

There aren't that many alternatives but it seems like GWD's Performance torsion bar covers are the perfect fit.
The torsion bars can be removed because they are no longer required for guiding the spring plates, which saves about 6kg total, yet the guiding of the spring plates is nice an precise without such a direct connection as a uniball setup.
I also considered a similar product from Rebel Racing (https://www.rsrproducts.com/product-...ar-bushing-set) but I haven't been able to determine if these would fit on 944 parts.
I'll be ordering them this week, hope they'll be delivered soon

Apart from that I've been busy disassembling the whole rear suspension to get all the parts blasted and zinc plated. Takes a bit more time than expected, especially finding a company that can do this short-term, almost all of them are closed for the holidays :P

Last edited by $aint; August 22nd 2019 at 16:25.
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  #13  
Old August 18th 2019, 12:53
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Pity Lindsay racing doesn't offer anything in coil-over for the steel trailing arms (my type 3 with IRS).
Maybe you know an adress or have a link?
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