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  #1  
Old March 3rd 2004, 15:11
ydeardorff ydeardorff is offline
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Beware Of Carbon Fiber In Accidents!

CARBON FIBER CAN DRAMATICALLY CAUSE MAJOR HEALTH RELATED ISSUES DURING AN ACCIDENT. IF SHATTERED FIBER PENETRATE YOUR SKIN EACH INDIVIDUAL FIBER MUST SURGICALLY REMOVED. INTERNAL ****PIT PARTS MADE OUT OF GENUINE CARBON FIBER CAN KILL. IF BURNT CARON FIBER RELEASES TOXIC VAPORS, THAT KILLS NEARLY INSTANTLY ASPHYXIATE A PERSON.
BUY IT FOR LOOKS, FINE, BUT BEWARE!
ydeardorff (advanced composite technition for the US Navy)
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  #2  
Old March 3rd 2004, 15:14
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I don't doubt your statement, but then how can they have Carbon Fibre
racing seats ? Have these been treated with something ?

Thanks,

Rob.
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  #3  
Old March 5th 2004, 04:15
SilverBullet SilverBullet is offline
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Yes F1 uses almost everything carbon fibre and they have violent crashes too. Something they use we don't know?
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  #4  
Old March 5th 2004, 16:42
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justdubbin justdubbin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBullet
Yes F1 uses almost everything carbon fibre and they have violent crashes too.Something they use we don't know ?

Yes.........But like you said I don't know


Rob.
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  #5  
Old March 5th 2004, 22:34
ydeardorff ydeardorff is offline
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When you mention racing seats, you have to realize too,... Those cars are designed for high speed impacts. The driver has quick release seat belts, and there are no doors, or anything getting in his/her way to get out. Not to mention the specially designed racing suits they wear.
In a street car, your chances at injury and death are even greater! The carbon seat are usually made super thick, and are stronger than most parts in the car. However one scratch, or any fiber that is caught by the skin will imbed itself in the skin. The microscopic cross section of a carbon fiber strand is similar to that of a bee stinger. The unfortunate proble is the fiber is extremely brittle. every attempt to remove the fiber will merely break it into piece. with theshape of the fiber, it will work through the body until it cones out the other side, uness it is surgically removed.
The other down side is that when burned, carbon fiber emits fibers and toxic fumes of which are deadly.
I have trained on this for years, and have worked with it as long also. We are required by the goverment to dress up similar to what you have seen of biohazard personnel dealing with lethal chemicals.
No openings of any kind. Carbn may look neat, save weight, and all that. But it is betterto buy the faux carbon stuff, and save the risk.
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  #6  
Old March 6th 2004, 01:45
super vw super vw is offline
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DUDE! stop scaring me!

Maybe a carbonfiber dash isent so cool...NOT! Really, you only live once...

IS there real proof? studies? I have cut carbon fiber before, smells quite nice i have not noticed any ill efects. i race XC mountin bikes for gosh sakes, no problems with lungs here .

Jonathan :shrug:
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Old March 7th 2004, 16:06
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I’ve been reading a book called Fiberglass and Composite Materials by Forbes Aird. It is touted as “an enthusiast’s guide to high performance non-metallic materials for automotive racing and marine use.”

I bought the book to learn more about the materials I was interested in using and possibly start a hobby which would augment another hobby. Although I find the book well written and concise, I find myself rereading sentences and even chapters. To that end and the fact a separate facility would be needed by me for such an endeavor, I will not be fashioning parts any time soon.

I continue to read and reread the book. Below is the best I can do in summarizing what this book has to offer for the thread at hand.

There are sections dealing with tensile strength, tensile stress, compressive strength, ductility, brittleness, strain, yielding, shear, fatigue under major and minor stress, fatigue resistance, fatigue loading, endurance limit, stiffness, specific strength, specific stiffness, consistency of material properties, and bending. Oh, and that’s just Chapters 13 and 14.

Chapter Six addresses health and safety, but mostly in the vein working with the materials in a shop situation. Safety tips are further imbedded in other chapters as well.

The first time CF was used in a race car application was in 1968 when small amounts were used to provide local stiffening in the glass fiber body panels on the Ford GT40 that won the Le Mans 24-hour race. CF is now the principal material used in the construction of the chassis tubs of all Formula One and Indy race cars.

Kevlar (DuPont’s registered trademark for aramid) is widely applied in race car construction as a hedge against the brittleness of carbon when combined with CF. “Indeed, much of the credit granted by TV race announcers to the ‘incredible strength of carbon fiber chassis’ following a race car accident should, in fact, be attributed to the aramid that is almost always visible flapping around the crumpled parts of the car. You won’t see much crumpled carbon fiber in such cases--it just explodes into dust when it is grossly overloaded in this way.”

So where does that leave us?

In the passage I quoted above, to me, the operative phrase is “grossly overloaded.” I hope to never be in an accident in any car that is this violent. My plans were to use CF on my future 1303 for the trunk lid, engine lid, running boards, headlamp rims, and inside door panels. If I’m in an accident in which CF splinters from the either lid, either running board, or either headlight ring enters the cab of my Super Beetle, I will have other concerns like will I regain consciousness, will I walk again, who can I sue (just kidding), etc.

Since reading the warning which started this thread, I am now having second thoughts about the door panels, however. Being T-boned is not out of the question, and I can visualize enough of an impact where splinters could become the major concern.

That being said, I am open to changing my plans depending on further evidence. A curious footnote is AFRP (aramid fiber reinforced plastic) is lighter and stronger than CFRP.
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Old March 9th 2004, 05:09
hybrid_john hybrid_john is offline
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Hey ydeardorff:

What about carbon/kevlar hybrid composit materials?

Are they a little safer than all carbon or do they have the same danger level?

Just curious....but you did scare me a little!


John
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  #9  
Old March 9th 2004, 12:12
ydeardorff ydeardorff is offline
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Not to scare you, but you will later in life. If you werent wearing a respirator, you more than likely aspirated alot of the dust and fibers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by super vw
DUDE! stop scaring me!

Maybe a carbonfiber dash isent so cool...NOT! Really, you only live once...

IS there real proof? studies? I have cut carbon fiber before, smells quite nice i have not noticed any ill efects. i race XC mountin bikes for gosh sakes, no problems with lungs here .

Jonathan :shrug:
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  #10  
Old March 9th 2004, 12:27
ydeardorff ydeardorff is offline
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Kevlar or aramid fibers, are a benefit due to the fact they do not shear off, but mearly bend. That is why they are used in bullet proof vests. To answer your question in regard to CF/kevlar mixed composites, then yes it is better than straight CF. But like what was said before in this post yes your major concern is will I walk again, will I live? Well yes these are in fact true, but imagine spending another 6 months going through repeated sugical proceedures due to CF splinters in your body. In my views CF is not that pretty, or valuble, as to risk the odds. It is far better to just run fiberglass, or laser printed plastic that looks like CF. If your concern is weight, there are Many other ways to lose the pounds, that are much safer!


Quote:
Originally Posted by hybrid_john
Hey ydeardorff:

What about carbon/kevlar hybrid composit materials?

Are they a little safer than all carbon or do they have the same danger level?

Just curious....but you did scare me a little!


John
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  #11  
Old March 9th 2004, 12:31
ydeardorff ydeardorff is offline
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Kevlars only issue is when it burns. It can asphyxiate quickly due to the fumes it releases. But it is very good if somebody wants to shoot at you! lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by ydeardorff
Kevlar or aramid fibers, are a benefit due to the fact they do not shear off, but mearly bend. That is why they are used in bullet proof vests. To answer your question in regard to CF/kevlar mixed composites, then yes it is better than straight CF. But like what was said before in this post yes your major concern is will I walk again, will I live? Well yes these are in fact true, but imagine spending another 6 months going through repeated sugical proceedures due to CF splinters in your body. In my views CF is not that pretty, or valuble, as to risk the odds. It is far better to just run fiberglass, or laser printed plastic that looks like CF. If your concern is weight, there are Many other ways to lose the pounds, that are much safer!
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  #12  
Old March 10th 2004, 07:52
hybrid_john hybrid_john is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ydeardorff
Kevlars only issue is when it burns. It can asphyxiate quickly due to the fumes it releases. But it is very good if somebody wants to shoot at you! lol
That's nice to know.
So if my car were made completely out of Kevlar I could gothrough Crenshaw or South Central LA, VERY SLOW, and not worry about anything

Hmmmmm...I like the idea. LOL

And with bullet proof glass, the POPE could even ride in my car...LOL

John
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