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  #16  
Old January 16th 2003, 21:21
Type 5 Joe Type 5 Joe is offline
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Sorry but your totally wrong Chad,

I wasn't refering to your exact product, but extrusions are always weaker than castings.

Thats why we use alot of castings to produce our Aerospace and Medical Components. These could be Whittled out of billet alot easier.

The molecular structure of extrusions can be compared to a slice off of a log, you give it some stress from the side and it fails...

Cast material has multi-lateral matix, grain structure, Thats why Porsche used it then and does today.

But what do they know compred to you, nothing I guess.

Good Luck to the Gentleman who is inovative an adapts the Porsche Jugs, don't let someone beat you down, so the might line their wallet W/$$$

- Joe

Last edited by Type 5 Joe; January 16th 2003 at 21:33.
  #17  
Old January 16th 2003, 22:05
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Alex Alex is offline
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Shad and Joe,


please no punch lines. There is nothing wrong with a good debate.

:tisktisk:

I also heard that the shop (Wahl I believe...can not remember anymore) that does all the race stuff for Kolbenschmidt (or was it Mahle....brain fade) said that casts are stronger generally.

But Shad has a point when he says that it depends which casting and which forging you are comparing with each other.

Alex
  #18  
Old January 16th 2003, 22:31
Type 5 Joe Type 5 Joe is offline
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That would be a good point, if we were talking about forging compared to castings.

Actually extrusions are generally weaker the conventional Billets, and far weaker than cast, due to the stresses created in the extrusion process.

No punch lines, just facts.

- Joe
  #19  
Old January 17th 2003, 01:11
Shad Laws Shad Laws is offline
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Hello-

Sorry but your totally wrong Chad,

(it's Shad... I wasn't blessed with an easy-to-spell name :-).

I wasn't refering to your exact product, but extrusions are always weaker than castings.

Absolutely false. It depends on all the specifics!

Extrusions, at their _finest_, are essentially open-die forgings, and are just as strong, too. 400MPa is a VERY high yield strength for aluminum alloys - go to the reference books and find a semi-common casting alloy that's higher. There aren't any.

Our extrusion is essentially a tube. Rather than just bore out the metal in the middle, we force it to the outside. This results in a stronger piece, and an organized grain structure in the axial direction. Given that the highest single component of stress for 99% of cylinder applications is the axial one caused by compression of the studs (because the aluminum wants to expand), this is a good thing!

And yes, I have done all the Finite Element Analyses on the structure and know that what I just said is true, unless you have 50 bazillion pounds of boost :-).


Thats why we use alot of castings to produce our Aerospace and Medical Components. These could be Whittled out of billet alot easier.

The geometry is likely different, which can yield different results. Also, in decent quantity, casting is a lot cheaper than machining one by one.

Another thing in aerospace and medical stuff is metal matrix composites. Here, casting is even more common because CTE is low as is machinability, making casting even a better bang-for-buck option.


The molecular structure of extrusions can be compared to a slice off of a log, you give it some stress from the side and it fails...

This isn't a 1/32" extruded wire, this is a 6" tube. Big difference.


Cast material has multi-lateral matix, grain structure,

Actually, the grain structure from casting aluminum is mostly random. The only time it takes shape is when dissimilar cross-section thicknesses cool at different rates.


Thats why Porsche used it then and does today.

Not for their prototypes, but for production, it's quite a bit cheaper.

But what do they know compred to you, nothing I guess.

That's not true.

If I were Porsche, I'd use billets in testing (before I dialed in the turbo and computer and whatnot to make sure there was no detonation, etc.), then swap over to casting to save the piles of money there is to be had in even making 100 engines identically (i.e. even their racing engine production runs).


Good Luck to the Gentleman who is inovative an adapts the Porsche Jugs, don't let someone beat you down, so the might line their wallet W/$$$

EXCUSE ME???

With all due respect Joe, leave me the hell alone. You've challenged my character before. You even told me that I crafted the truth around my desire to get money.

I see these actions as very unethical, and respectfully ask that you remove this behavior from here immediately.

Good day.
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  #20  
Old January 17th 2003, 01:36
Type 5 Joe Type 5 Joe is offline
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Calm down chad, your very exitable aren't you?

I will not post any further here in this matter, if you won't frequent the STF and talk down my Oxyboxer motors.

People will believe what they want, I'm not trying to get rich off of any of it.

Good Day there Junior, - Joe
  #21  
Old January 17th 2003, 01:46
Shad Laws Shad Laws is offline
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Hello-

Calm down chad, your very exitable aren't you?

For the second time, that's "Shad." My name is spelled right there in front of you, and I'd appreciate it if you copied it correctly.

Yes, I do get pissed off when people directly attack my character. Don't ever do it again.


I will not post any further here in this matter, if you won't frequent the STF and talk down my Oxyboxer motors.

The oxyboxer is _not_ a bad idea! However, you were selling it as the best thing since sliced bread, immune to all the defects of OEM cases and the whole lot, and I simply stated what it really is. It's good for what it is, but it only is... what it is. Sounds kinda zen-esque, but you know what I mean.


People will believe what they want, I'm not trying to get rich off of any of it.

Neither am I. With my resume, I can walk into a $100,000/yr. job in a snap. Yet I'm here trying to innovate new products for aircooled engines. That is _not_ a move made in the interest of money, and I do NOT appreciate the insinuation.

Grow up and leave my character alone. Thank you.
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  #22  
Old January 17th 2003, 02:13
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Thread closed.

Alex
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