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Old January 2nd 2003, 21:00
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Jim Andritsakos Jim Andritsakos is offline
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For Steve Carter (wbx to beetle related)

Hello Steve,

First of all happy new year!

I was get a DJ complete engine to put in my 1303 :

I want to retain the engine fully stock along with the F.I.

The question is : what kind of mods are required in the engine bay to fit (sheet metal) ???

Rgds,
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74 1303 GL (project)
75 181 ex bundeswehr / 85 T3 Panel
86 T3 Syncro ambulance / 87 T3 Syncro doubledoor 16
89 T3 Syncro panel
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  #2  
Old January 3rd 2003, 07:27
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Hi Jim

Happy new year you as well & the rest of our German Look community, we recieved some much needed rain down here so we had very nice Christmas & New Year, better than last year when we had bushfires. Below is a an updated post that I have made on other boards.

Steve C

Wasserboxer in a Beetle.

The Wasserboxer has received some bad press for headstud problems; coolant leaks and assorted other woes. These problems seem to occur when proper VW servicing techniques are not used, VW coolant and distilled water.

The Wasserboxer motor in my VW Beetle has been looked after as far correct coolant is concerned; I also use distilled water mixed with genuine VW coolant. I fitted an Oettinger 85° thermostat instead of the standard 87°. These don’t seem to be available anymore so I have modified a Mercedes one to fit. The top part of the thermostat is the same as the VW one, but the lower bypass part has a larger diameter flange. This can easily be made the correct diameter by first marking out the correct diameter circle with a pair of dividers and the grind the flange down to the marked circle, it doesn’t need to a perfect circle. I also got rid of water-cooled oil-cooler as I have heard that they can fail. I’m running an air cooled oil cooler with a Setrab thermo block at the front of the radiator.

As far as the rest of the motor goes it is extremely reliable, I give my bug heaps. I have bent one Scat pushrod (I’m now running Berg ones) and had 2 water pumps fail in about 100,000 Ks since 1988 and have had a few coolant hoses fail. My bug is also in constant state of improvement, so some things are always changing.

The Wasserboxers use 2 styles of cooling systems, basically the 1.9 and 2.1 litre style. I prefer the 2.1 style.

Fitting the motor is much the same as fitting a type 4 motor, same style of flywheel. The thermostat housing which sits above # 3 exhaust port needs to have some body clearancing. The water hose that runs from the water pump to the thermostat housing needs to be modified at the water pump end. It basically would run straight through the left-hand rear bumper bracket. Any Beetle exhaust can be used, #1 & # 4 exhaust flanges need to be rotated 90°. In the engine bay I used basically the whole Wasserboxer cooling system and condensed it to fit. You will need a steel coolant ring main as the plastic one cant be shortened easily.

The coolant runs to and from the front of the car via 1.5-inch stainless steel tubes. These follow the chassis bolts along the bottom of the heater channels. I have just upgraded my radiator with a modified Ford Transit radiator. After some gentle prompting from a fellow list STF user MARTINSR, yesterday I went out and bought an after market thermo fan from Davies Craig http://www.daviescraig.com.au/. It’s meant to be used for a 5 litre V8 and pumps 2120 CFM, so far its working really well, we are having 40 ° + days down here at the moment. I previously used a BMW radiator and Audi 100 thermo fan. Cool air is brought into the radiator through an A/C louvered front apron. I removed the deformation plate at the front of the chassis to allow more air in. I had to also remove the spare wheel well and I just left the rounded edge for a bit of extra strength, I supplemented the spare wheel wells strength with angle steel. My radiator is around 550 mm across and 450 mm deep on the cooling surface, it’s actually a little wider where the tanks are on the side. The radiator sits on a U shaped holder right down on the chassis and comes very close to the under bonnet and leans forward about 5°. I fabricated a sheetmetal alloy housing to guide the cooling air in and let the heated air exit over the front end. I basically used some angle aluminum for the edges and then filled this in with very thin aluminum sheet. In case you hadn’t already realised my bug is a super. I have seen radiators fitted to standard bugs but I have no experience with this. My spare wheel sits on top my fuel tank on a bracket attached to the strut brace.

Original heater channels were retained and warm air is directed from a Toyota troop carrier heater core under the rear seat opposite the battery, to the interior via early Audi 100 brake cooling fan on the right hand side and via the troopy fan on the left hand side. I have used the rear seat heater cable to operate heater shut off valve.

My Kombi motor was purchased new in 1988 and is 2.1 litre its DJ engine number type 10.5:1 compression, 112 BHP type. I original ran the motor with dual webbers Berg cam. In preparation for a turbo the motor was been decompressed to 8.0:1 and the cam changed back to standard. 1.4 berg rockers are used.

I’m using an after market EFI system with the factory manifold, the injectors in the stock manifold sit in a horizontal plane so the side panels in engine bay that the engine tray seal fits in need to be modified or removed.
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Old January 3rd 2003, 14:43
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Nice to hear that Steve!

I would like to know as I want to use the 2.1l style water pump if you can any pic to showing the modified engine bay to clear the thermostat ???

Rgds,
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74 1303 GL (project)
75 181 ex bundeswehr / 85 T3 Panel
86 T3 Syncro ambulance / 87 T3 Syncro doubledoor 16
89 T3 Syncro panel
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  #4  
Old January 4th 2003, 07:47
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Hi Jim

I dont have any photos of the mods I did for the thermostat housing, but you can see the bump in the carpet behind my chassis brace in the attached pic
Its pretty easy to do, I just worked out where it was going to end up in the engine bay and then cut 2 slits with an angle grinder, then knocked it in so that area was completly reversed, then filled in & welded up the sides.

Steve C
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Old January 5th 2003, 16:20
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Jim Andritsakos Jim Andritsakos is offline
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Hello Steve,

Well, it seems a easy job to make the thermostat to fit.
I have also the early 1.9 style but I don't like it...
What about the flywheel Steve ? Have you installed a 210,215 or the 228 ???.I would like to know what are you think about the Transporter radiator ? Is it fits ? (1303)


Best rgds,
Jim
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Jim Andritsakos

74 1303 GL (project)
75 181 ex bundeswehr / 85 T3 Panel
86 T3 Syncro ambulance / 87 T3 Syncro doubledoor 16
89 T3 Syncro panel
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  #6  
Old January 6th 2003, 05:52
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Hi Jim

I have had them all, 210 1st then I fitted a 228 and was not happy with the clamp given and the metal that needed to be removed from the bellhousing, so the only way I could get a decent custom clutch made was to go back to a 215. The 210 & 215 just need the usual type4 - type 1 conversion, a pilot bearing fitted to the centre.

If you are going to leave the motor pretty much stock you should be able to use a smaller radiator, it all depends on the weather over there and the output of the motor. The 5 cyl Audi 100 radators and fans look like they would do a good job, I think the transporter radiator may be a little tall.

Steve C
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Old January 6th 2003, 07:21
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Hello Steve!

Well I was use a 215 flywheel then.
These cars (100 5-cyl) are a rarity here...
The motor will be completely stock.
As for the weather last summer we had tempratures up to 42C here...So have you something else in your mind (for radiator)Steve ?

Rgds,
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Jim Andritsakos

74 1303 GL (project)
75 181 ex bundeswehr / 85 T3 Panel
86 T3 Syncro ambulance / 87 T3 Syncro doubledoor 16
89 T3 Syncro panel
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Old January 6th 2003, 07:57
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Hi Jim

You have similar temps too here at times then. I dont have any recomendations for a radiator then, I looked at fitting an Audi 100 radiator to mine but used a modified Ford Transit one, the best thing to do is find an alloy radiator that you can get easily with a fan attached if possible, before i fitted the Ford one I used a 5 series BMW one, it cost me 2 dozen cans of beer, the Ford radiator is twice as thick but I didnt see any lowering of temps, but what I was after was the reserve abiltiy to soak up extra heat when the motor was on boost.

Steve C

ps I hope we are not boring anybody, but I think its good to talk about this in the forum and not in private emails.
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Old January 6th 2003, 11:49
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Hello Steve,

Well, if I get a Transit one (radiator) needs to be modified to fit ???From which model (year/gas or diesel) ??The Transit fan it's okay too ???Any picture ?

Rgds,

p.s. I agree it is better to discuss here but the interest for the wbx seems to be very limited...
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Jim Andritsakos

74 1303 GL (project)
75 181 ex bundeswehr / 85 T3 Panel
86 T3 Syncro ambulance / 87 T3 Syncro doubledoor 16
89 T3 Syncro panel
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  #10  
Old January 7th 2003, 07:46
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Hi Jim

The Ford radiator needed to be narrowed and new end tanks made. Im not sure what sort of fan they use, I was in a radiator shop talkng to a the owner and I mentioned that I was looking for a bigger radiator, he showed me the Ford radiator and it was love at 1st site.

Steve C
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Old January 16th 2003, 14:08
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Jim Andritsakos Jim Andritsakos is offline
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Hello Steve!

Today I was get a Ford transit 2.0 gas radiator!
No fan here as it was in the crank end!
It is very good looking a a lot easier fitment that the vanagon one! Steve is there any luck to remember from what vehicle and type is the fan you are bought from davies craig ??? I want to order one too!I plan to remove the deformation plate and to remove from the spot welds the front half of the spare wheel well.Then a custom made angled mount to install the radiator...

What are you think for these mods Steve ?

best rgds,
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Jim Andritsakos

74 1303 GL (project)
75 181 ex bundeswehr / 85 T3 Panel
86 T3 Syncro ambulance / 87 T3 Syncro doubledoor 16
89 T3 Syncro panel
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  #12  
Old January 17th 2003, 08:33
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Steve C Steve C is offline
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Hi Jim

I bought my fan a general parts local shop, you can find out more about them here

http://www.daviescraig.com.au/

I used a DCSL16.

What you propose with radiator sounds fine

Steve C
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Last edited by Steve C; January 17th 2003 at 08:59.
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Old January 17th 2003, 18:16
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Jim Andritsakos Jim Andritsakos is offline
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Thanks Steve !

I have see one German built oval with a scooby 2.2l engine with a radiator installed in... where the firewall use to be !
The car has street legal license plates.
What are you think for this (I mean the radiator position) ???

Rgds,
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Jim Andritsakos

74 1303 GL (project)
75 181 ex bundeswehr / 85 T3 Panel
86 T3 Syncro ambulance / 87 T3 Syncro doubledoor 16
89 T3 Syncro panel
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  #14  
Old January 19th 2003, 09:55
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Hi Jim

2 things that would sway me away from going that way,
1 with the cooling system at the front you get a better weight distribution, its also a pretty radical thing to do with body.
2 Im not sure how hot it gets in Germany but from what I can gather Greece is like Australia, hot, so you will need as much airflow over the radiator as possible.

If you are still looking for a cooling fan have a look at othe cars that are common to you, Mercs etc to, see if they have something useful. When I open the bonnet/hood on other cars Im always looking to see what I could use on my bug.

Steve C
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