What size brakes needed?

[craigt-from-atl]

I'm getting all caught up in this whole 'Porsche brakes' for the beetle stuff. I just needed to get some kind of reality check. While it would be really neat to have 996 brakes on my beetle, I don't think they are necessary.

I'm still in the research/looking phase, but will be acquiring a '58-'61 Ragtop. I will shortly thereafter install a Raby 2270 Type 4. I'm not sure on the HP yet, but figure between 100 and 140. (I think)

Obviously I will need to upgrade from stock, but what is enough? I really like the idea of Porsche brakes, but am not liking the fabrication and $$ needed.

What would you guys suggest? I definitely want to go disk all the way around, and want to keep a parking brake. I have mechanical abilities, but don't have any fabrication access/abilities. Above all, I want my beetle to be safe. (at least as safe as a Type 1 can be)

Thanks.

[Shad Laws]

Hello-

I'm getting all caught up in this whole 'Porsche brakes' for the beetle stuff. I just needed to get some kind of reality check. While it would be really neat to have 996 brakes on my beetle, I don't think they are necessary.

It all depends on your style of driving. If you plan to see road tracks routinely, where brakes glow red on every turn, then they are needed. If not, well, then there's many other setups that will do just fine :-).


I'm still in the research/looking phase, but will be acquiring a '58-'61 Ragtop. I will shortly thereafter install a Raby 2270 Type 4. I'm not sure on the HP yet, but figure between 100 and 140. (I think)

Obviously I will need to upgrade from stock, but what is enough? I really like the idea of Porsche brakes, but am not liking the fabrication and $$ needed.

What would you guys suggest? I definitely want to go disk all the way around, and want to keep a parking brake. I have mechanical abilities, but don't have any fabrication access/abilities. Above all, I want my beetle to be safe. (at least as safe as a Type 1 can be)

Well, what you "need" really depends on your style of driving. The simplest solution I'd recommend is getting Ghia-style front discs and CB "rotohub" rear discs. You can use the stock 4x130 bolt pattern or have them drilled for 5x130 Porsche. If you want a little more braking _power_, then get some carbon-kevlar pads for them. The stock master cylinder works fine here, too.

The reason to go for more has less to do with "safety" (i.e. at normal highway speeds) and braking "power" and a lot more to do with heat soak. If you want to do a lot of routine braking, say in autocrossing or whatever, I'd recommend going to the simplest Porsche upgrade: the normally-aspirated 944 setup. It's relatively cheap, and gives you four-wheel vented discs. You are forced to use the 5x130 bolt pattern, though.

If the reason you want Porsche brakes is to look pretty, then I suggest this: get whatever discs you plan to use cross-drilled (by a professional who knows how to chamfer to eliminate stress problems) and get some nice epoxy paint for the calipers. This treatment even on the solid discs makes them look gorgeous :-).

Take care,

[jhelgesen]

I'm with Shad on this one. All depends on what you want to do with it.

If you are just cruising the street, then ghia brakes and cb rears will be fine.

If you want to do some track time, a 944 setup can be done using early NA parts. A ball joint front end and irs rear would be helpful. Cross drilled rotor can be used here if wanted.

Next step is to use the turbo/Brembo calipers.

Another thing to remember is with the ghia brakes you can use 15" wheels, porsche stuff, gets hard to put a 15" wheel on, 16's and 17's are a better fit (look better too).

Ditto

[craigt-from-atl]

Yeah, it would be a semi-daily driver, and I doubt it would ever see the track. (autocrossing at least)

I noticed you guys mentioned the 944 brakes could be had a realitively low cost. What is the price differential over some ghia brakes? If I could do some Porsche brakes for not too much more, why not?

I had some ghia brakes on my '73 Super before I sold it. I think they were like $350 or so for the fronts.

[chigger]

It was about $1200 for the fronts with 944 disks. I think I can do it now for about $900. I have done 3 sets of Ghia fronts on a ball joint for about $250 each. For SBs I don't know. Superman could answer that.

[Ron Roberts]

Im glad to see some intellegent replies here. Hp Does NOT make your car harder to stop. Speed and weight does. Its really about constant vs intermittent use, as was explained above. My ghia with discs in front and drums in the rear can lock up at 90mph to a stop. Prolonged usage results in serious brake fade, especially if the rears are not kept in good adjustment. Adjusting the parking brake tightens only one end of the shoes. After you do that a couple timed the total surface of the shoe never contacts the drum.

Ron

[craigt-from-atl]

Well, with no track time in the future, it looks like ghia fronts and CB rears are the (sensible) way to go.

I appreciate all the sound advice. I like the fact that even though some of you guys out there already have the 944 setup, you can still see what is and what is not necessary. I will definitely keep that option open as I think it's really cool, but will probably go with the *sensible* option first.

Thanks!

[Shad Laws]

Hello-

I noticed you guys mentioned the 944 brakes could be had a realitively low cost. What is the price differential over some ghia brakes? If I could do some Porsche brakes for not too much more, why not?

I spent $250 at the junkyard for all the parts plus a pair of 944 trailing arms. Let's say $180 here for brakes.

Then, I bought caliper rebuild kits (~$30 total), carbon-kevlar pads (~$150), new cross-drilled vented rotors (~$300), an M14x1.50 thread reamer for the studs ($2), new front bearings (~$30), a new 944 MC (~$100), some epoxy paint (~$30), and some 944 e-brake cable ends (~$20)

So, that's ~$850 for the whole mess with 100% new "important" parts. A Ghia front is $350, a rear CB is $250, and a new MC is $50, so that's $650 for the whole mess new for that configuration.

The difference is then about $200 plus machining.

IMHO, the simple 944 system isn't necessarily superfluous. AFAIK, somewhere around 0% of new cars are made without vented front discs. Even a Geo with rear drums has front vented discs. JMHO... nothing more.

Take care,