How to: 944 Turbo brakes on a Super

There are several ways to do this but unfortunately there is not a simple "bolt on" like with the 83-85 944NA. The best year to use is the 86 because it has the hubs designed like the 83-85 and the 87-91 have wider hubs and some have ABS also. In simple terms the 83-85 spindle to strut mount is short and fat and the 86-91 mount is tall and skinny. The below methods, with the exception of the MBT kit, also require the use of a 'bump steer' kit from Topline Parts to mount the tie rods and the use of a 17mm ball joint from Kerscher in Germany. Take note that the Turbo spindle does not have the hole for the speedo cable.

The best way (and safest) is with a kit from MBT that has hubs and caliper mounts that bolt to the Super's spindle and keeps the original steering geometry. Nothing is welded or altered and this is an actual bolt on kit; however, it costs US$3,000.

Another way is to weld the holes on the Turbo spindle and redrill them in the 83-85 pattern. The Turbo spindle is thinner than the NA by 2mm so this will have to be accounted for also.

Lastly, what I did, is to take some 951 (944 Turbo) struts and build a coil-over kit to fit the Super, like I did with these. This way the spindle to strut mount is factory and not altered in any way with welding or shims.

NOTE: Keep in mind when doing suspension modifications/alterations that if these components fail it may result in loss of car or life.

[SprintStar]

Can we drill out the spindle for the speedo hole?

How are the 951 struts different to the 944 ones? Do they bolt to the strut towers different?

Sprint.

Yes a competent machine shop can drill out the hole for the speedo cable.

The basic design is the same but the Turbo specs are larger. The strut mount is longer but thinner, the caliper mount is 18mm bigger, and the hubs/discs aren't the same. If you want the Turbo brakes you'll need all the Turbo parts, they don't interchange with the NA parts in the front, as they do in the rear.

[Wally]

Hey Superman,
The drilling of the speedo hole might be very difficult. Have you ever let it do by a shop?
To overcome the problem I've used a bike (yes, bike) aftermarket digital computer speedo: they work with a magnet to the bike wheel and a pick-up point on the frame (same principle as a dizzy hall-geber or uni-lite system). So I attached the magnet to the 944T disc inner side and the pick-up to the spindel. The digital speedo has a glue strip on it that I sticked to my tach, which is in the middle of my 03 dash instead of the original speedo. You simply measure the radius of the front tire and feed it to the bike 'computer' It has sevral functions like highest speed ever reached, average speed etc.
I now have digital accuracy :-) and can dispose of the original speedo, which I couldn't use any more anyway.
BTW highest speed has been 188.7 km/h... which was 5950 rpm with a 3,875 stock trans
Walter

[SprintStar]

The strut mount is larger? Meaning that even in a 944, the 951 items don't plug and play?

Sprint.

Sprint, yes the 951 top strut mount will fit the 944 but that does not concern us because we need to use the Super's upper strut (bearing) mount. The mount referred to was for the spindle to strut, not the strut to body.

Wally, yes I had the spindle drilled but your usage of the bicycle parts is interesting and intelligent. Good idea, I like it, but I want the OEM speedo so I had to do this.

[SprintStar]

So, if the strut to body mount is the same for the 944 and 951, it means we can adapt the strut to our '03s easily, right?

Hehe.... That being the case, I can rest easy.

As for the speedo, any possibility of rigging up a stock Porsche electronic speedo to our Bugs? I assume you need to right up the sender, that's all....

Sprint.

No, as stated in the original post of this thread this retrofit is not a simple bolt on nor is it easy. The Super upper strut bearing mount is not the same as the 944/951, the Porsche has 4 bolts and the Super has 3 bolts.

The 944/951 strut has a larger diameter spring than our Supers so they will not work. This has been covered in other posts, do a search. Yetibone has used a 944 strut with a Super spring but had to make some kind of clamp to hold the spring to the strut housing, which (in my opinion) is not safe.

There are 3 ways to mount 944 Turbo (951) brakes to a Super, all are listed above in the original post.

Start a new post about adapting the electric speedo because I have no info for you. I'll use the OEM Super speedo, so I have done no research on this subject nor have any interest to do so.

[SprintStar]

I understand about the Super's 3-bolt vs. the 944's 4-bolt. Can't we just transfer the strut mount over? I did it for my 944 brake conversion and it's a bolt-on. In fact, I bought the late '03 parts to fit it and in the end, I went with the ball-bearing mount of the earlier' 02 system. Fits good.

The 944 has a larger diameter spring? For which years? When I fit put on my 944 struts, I used the 944 springs, which I found to be too stiff and I swapped them out for a Beetle pair. NO difference in FIT and obvious difference in ride height and quality due to lesser spring rate.

Sprint.

The Porsche springs being too stiff would be an understatement, I mean that car is about 3,100 pounds as compared to the Beetle's 1,800 pounds. You guys really do some dangerous things and I fear someone is going to get hurt.

Check Yetibone's post as he attached a pic and it clearly shows the 944 spring to be about 5mm larger than the Super. You'll also see the clamp he had to make to hold the spring to the strut.

Keep in mind also that the 951 strut is not the same design as the 944, some even are welded and you can't change the insert. As said before, and again here, the 951 retrofit is not simple and easy like the 944 procedure.

Sure you went with the 1302 strut bearing because the bearings don't interchange between the late and early body.

I don't remember the thread, I'd have to search for it, which I will let you do on your own.

I don't need the pics, I've seen all this stuff before.

Yes, the 74-79 has a larger hole in the body for the larger bearing of the later suspension. So, yea you can put the smaller 71-73 early bearing in the larger hole of the later body and have a gap, but is that safe. Consquently, it is also true that the larger later bearing will not fit the smaller hole of the early body.

[SprintStar]

I don't know if it's safe to have a small gap, but looking at some modern Jap cars, it seems ok coz the strut mount doesn't even protrude out like ours, they remain flush with the strut tower...

What I was trying to say is despite body difference, the strut bearing will mount on the strut without any problem. Strut mount to strut tower clearance is a different problem.

Sprint.

Well that's why I prefer the close fit tolerance of German built cars

I fully understand your desire to make this retrofit "easy" and "bolt on" but I assure you it's just not possible. I've researched this for the last 7 years ever since I seen the MBT 1303 when in Europe.

Sure, it might be able to be done with a gap here and a shim there but these small spaces can be the difference between a safe and fun to drive car or one that is, well you know.

As for me, I'm like Porsche when building my car, I demand excellence!

[SprintStar]

Excellance was expected.

I demand the best and accept no substitutes either. That's why I choose to use Porsche components in my Bug rather than the Cal-Look style of rear discs using Golf calipers. No offense to those who are well-engineered but I want the best, hence it's only natural to look to Porsche.

I'm hoping the brakes will be 'bolt-on' not just for ease of installation, but also maximium strenght and durability. If it's a hack-and-weld job, I won't feel good, hence I hope you can understand why I'm looking for bolt-on?

I hope you can help me with parts identification as I don't have a source for many Porsche 944 parts here, especially the later, more expensive, hence more exclusive and elusive 944s....

So, 1st question. Assuming I have an early 944, I can mount the entire set-up from a 951 with no problems? Top mount is the same? Bottom ball-joint is the same? If so, I think Houston, we don't have a problem.

2nd question. Are the 951 struts anything like the 944 items in which they accept shock inserts?

Thanks.

Sprint.

Not to sound rude but read and reread this thread, these questions have already been answered.