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Old July 25th 2002, 22:23
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DORIGTT DORIGTT is offline
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Question What do I do to modify my Ghia?

I have a 1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe which has the ball joint front suspension and the I.R.S. rear suspension. I would like to get information on what modifications I can do to give it the suspension set-up from the Kafer Cup cars. The car is to be used in various track-events and autocrosses here in the United States.
I am looking for things like alignment settings to use as a baseline, shock, spring combinations, bracing and other chassis reinforcements used on the Kafer Cup cars.
Also, what can be done for me reguarding wheel/tire combos? I'm planning to used either Porsche brake components or Wilwood brakes with a custom rotor setup.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. My user name is my license plate on my car which means 'The original TT'
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Old July 26th 2002, 10:42
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Oliver Knuf Oliver Knuf is offline
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Wink That's too much! :-)

The difference of a track and Autocross suspension is very big, do you want something for both, or do you do something more often?

Käfercup cars drove with adjustable struds front & rear, besides the front struds were quite a piece of hard workmanship to get them on a ball joint suspension, as the original bumper setup is much too weak!
A 6-point roll-bar, combined with axle bracings, front stiffening of the axle, as fork end bracings (cup bars) are also common, my question is, how much you want and how far you want to go. When the forum admin allows the picture posting, I can give you several pictures with detailed bracings, chassis stiffening and other neat stuff to do!
Brakes is a wide area, as you can build up either a standard 2-piston caliper, up to 6-piston GT3 calipers, btw, common and on a financially normal basis would be 944 turbo setup, maybe with aluminum IRS mounts. That would be a thing for the brake forum, but we can work hand-in-hand. Same is for the wheel & tire combination, but there is a big difference for track use and autocross use, besides a good rim for both is a forged 16" Fuchs.

Do you have somebody in your near, who makes professional race-roll-bar setups, maybe for NASCAR or other full-car race series? Ask him to do a one-off roll-bar setup including axle stiffening with your ideas (taken from race cars all over the world) . That would be the best way to get a good 6-point with all the stuff you want.


Not more by now, I have to work a bit! :silly:
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Old July 26th 2002, 17:51
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Which adjustable struts/shock are you referring to?

More track use than autocross.

Are there adjustable coil-over shocks available other than a system I've seen using AVO shocks? A kit car manufacturer Legend has a system for the front I know of but I would like to know what the Kafercup cars use. Bilstein? Koni? Spax?

In the rear, whom do I contact to purchase the Bilstein coil-overs that will allow me to get rid of the torsion bars in the rear? Or do you recommend keeping the torsion bars, but a stiffer version of them?

What kind of bracing are you referring to? Could you send me pictures to my personal e-mail address?

I also recall seeing on your website an anti-roll bar that was mounted between the front torsion bars as opposed to hanging underneath the lower torsion tube. Is it available?

Which Fuchs offset / width can I use? I will not accept anything smaller than the 16" version.

I've already contacted a local racecar fabrication shop that will make a cage for my after I finish stitch welding my pan and bodyshell together. This is for increased rigidity.

What did you mean when you referred the the "original bumper setup is much too weak!"

What are the "fork end bracings (cup bars)"?

Please send the pictures to me at... kevinhale@comcast.net

Thanks in advance Oliver.

Kevin J Hale
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Old July 31st 2002, 03:23
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Oliver Knuf Oliver Knuf is offline
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Post A few answers...

Hi!
Thanks for your mail. I try to find some pictures on my PC. Stay tuned! Here some q's and a's!


...Are there adjustable coil-over shocks available other than a system I've seen using AVO shocks? A kit car manufacturer Legend has a system for the front I know of but I would like to know what the Kafercup cars use. Bilstein? Koni? Spax?

-I don't know the word AVO. Never heard, sorry! :-D You can purchase Bilsteins for the front from my father's shop.


...In the rear, whom do I contact to purchase the Bilstein coil-overs that will allow me to get rid of the torsion bars in the rear? Or do you recommend keeping the torsion bars, but a stiffer version of them?

-Coil-overs for the rear, Bilsteins, too. There are two different versions for the rear available. One version for road use, one for race use. The race version is completely adjustable in height, stiffness (in and out travel) and the dampener pistons are mounted with ball bearings. Best way is, when you use adjustable spring plates, but not height adjustable, they are adjustable in the length and you can change the wheel position, too. They are mounted with 4 screws to the old torsion bar housing and are done of aluminum with unibal fittings.


...What kind of bracing are you referring to? Could you send me pictures to my personal e-mail address?

-Sure. A good race cage with self-made mountings for the rear damepener ends and for the front axle top ends.


...I also recall seeing on your website an anti-roll bar that was mounted between the front torsion bars as opposed to hanging underneath the lower torsion tube. Is it available?

-On our website??? On my fathers website??? No. :-D We've got a special front sway bar in 16mm diameter, with unibal fittings. An ideal, but more heavy front setup would be the following. Use a complete 181 Thing front axle, get it cleaned, weld some GB adjusters in and use the complete front suspension stiffeners with the original mounts to the chassis. These ones are radical, even the stiffer front axle is stiffer than all you can buy. No bending under high load!


...Which Fuchs offset / width can I use? I will not accept anything smaller than the 16" version.

-Hard to find them, but I would use 6" x 16" ET around 55 for the front, maybe 7" x 16" ET around 52 would work, too. The rear with the same 7" when using 6" in the front or 8" x 16" with an ET of around 42, but that would be also somewhat tight, welding would be required to get the wheel housings fitted.


...I've already contacted a local racecar fabrication shop that will make a cage for my after I finish stitch welding my pan and bodyshell together. This is for increased rigidity.

-I've never heard from that "trick". We glued the chassis with the seals and with the housing, then you still can demount the housing using a heated wire, welding would be dramatic in case of an accident, as you can drop your complete car into a trashcan. Helpful would be, to weld inch by inch the point weldings toghether, to get the housing stiffer. I wouldn't recommend more.


...What did you mean when you referred the the "original bumper setup is much too weak!"

-The front dampener mounts, that means the top of the front axle, where the rubber mounts were, as the 12mm bolt, where the lower end of the dampener is fitted, they are both too weak to mount a good coil-over shock in between. After hard rides, both will extremely bend away!


...What are the "fork end bracings (cup bars)"?

-You know the CSP USA-advertises in the HotVW's? The rear bracings, that lay between the top dampener mounts, and from every top mount to the fork ends at the gear box, this is a cup bracing. There are several systems on the market. We've got a unit with gear box mount out of aluminum and steel.
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Old July 31st 2002, 12:19
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More questions for you Oliver.

You mentioned Bilstien front shocks for my torsion beam front suspension. Are these coil-overs that allow for height adjustment as well as getting rid of the front leaf springs? Or are you saying to just use torsion adjusters to lower the front? Would the dropped spindles be a better way to go without increasing harshness?

How can I get these goods shipped to me in the U.S.A.?

Would an aluminum front axle beam as used in off-road racers be a good way to go? Properly braced, it could be as strong as the Type 181's front axlebeam. What is it about the Type 181 axle that makes it better?

You mentioned that the front dampener mounts were weak if used with coil-overs. Why wouldn't I just seam weld and gusset this area? Wouldn't some type of 'strut tower brace' work as well?

Where can I get the adjustable spring plates you referred to? Are these the same as used in Porsche suspensions?

Thanks again in advance.

Kevin J Hale
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  #6  
Old August 1st 2002, 04:20
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Oliver Knuf Oliver Knuf is offline
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Post Again some answers....

Hi!


...You mentioned Bilstien front shocks for my torsion beam front suspension. Are these coil-overs that allow for height adjustment as well as getting rid of the front leaf springs?

-No, just good working dampeners. I use HD springs.

...Or are you saying to just use torsion adjusters to lower the front? Would the dropped spindles be a better way to go without increasing harshness?

-I've got a stiffer adjustable front beam with 181 parts welded to it, then I use the dropped spindles from CB, together with a bolt-on vented disc conversion from Kerscher. I have to use 5,5 x 15 ET 40 rims (Porsche Fuchs, 914) to get the wheel as far in as possible, to have no problem with the fenders. I ride the front with original beetle Koni's in red and have heavy duty spring plates inside my front axle. This is just an example, but it's working pretty good.
The dropped spindles make the travel way really big, so you have to use buffers inside your front shocks, to stop the down travel before it's too late. The spindles are then much thicker, as you can see on my wheel choice.
It depends on your wheel choice, if you really want to go with 17", there's no use for dropped spindles, as there's no place for them, too. The wheels would be too far out.
16" with good rubbers would work with the spindles, but there's anytime the question, if a car has to be low or drive-able.

...How can I get these goods shipped to me in the U.S.A.?

-Some products are avbailable in the US, some from my father's shop, some from other shops in Germany, where I can organize them from. Problematic at the moment is the card payment, as it isn't working for a month now, but this will be solved in the next months, I hope!

...Would an aluminum front axle beam as used in off-road racers be a good way to go? Properly braced, it could be as strong as the Type 181's front axlebeam. What is it about the Type 181 axle that makes it better?

-An aluminum axle looks cool, works good on a spindle mount tire on dune buggies, but it's nothing for circle tracking. It's too weak, even if you brace it completely. Also you can't get ball joint front ends, so never use it.

...You mentioned that the front dampener mounts were weak if used with coil-overs. Why wouldn't I just seam weld and gusset this area? Wouldn't some type of 'strut tower brace' work as well?

-It wouldn't work, as you just can stiffen the top properly, but the 12mm stud way down is in no way good, to load the complete car weight on. It just works with completely rewelded axle ends or with a new front axle construction.

...Where can I get the adjustable spring plates you referred to? Are these the same as used in Porsche suspensions?

-They are produced by Remmele in France or KW in Germany, but you can get them from my father's shop, too.
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Old August 1st 2002, 08:05
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What are the 181 axle parts?

What parts did yhou add to your axlebeam from the Type 181?

Thanks for the pics also!

How can I get more information on those goodies shown?

Thanks again

Kevin J Hale
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Old August 1st 2002, 08:08
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DORIGTT DORIGTT is offline
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Catalog or website?

Oliver,

How can I view what products are available through your father's shop? I would like to arrange a purchase, but would like to see what I'm purchasing. I trust that the parts are of excellent quality but I would still like to view them first.

How can I look at his website or catalog?

Thanks again.

Kevin J Hale
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Old August 1st 2002, 08:37
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You can see some of the parts when the gallery is up and running.
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  #10  
Old August 5th 2002, 03:40
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Oliver Knuf Oliver Knuf is offline
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Talking Stay tuned!

As far as the server is changed to a new provider, the pictures will run and I post more, also actually photographed axles, to see what I mean. The main thing is the stiffening of the shock tower and you're right, Dorgitt, the stiffening of the shock tower through braces from the roll cage would be a good thing!

Stay tuned!
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