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Old August 13th 2019, 13:13
$aint $aint is offline
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1303RS: '75 1303S street/track project

Since 2007 I've been the lucky owner of a 1975 1303S. Since that same year I've been a member of this site, but so far I haven't made a project thread. Figured now's as good a time as any to do so

This is what the car looked like when I got it:
1303RS-as-bought.jpg

The plan has always been to turn it into a track focused car that's still driveable on the street. I still want to be able to drive to and from the track in the car itself and be able to drive around town and the highway with it and not get my teeth rattled out

The focus is mainly on keeping the car light, whilst making sure the suspension and brakes are as good as they can be.
Engine wise for now I'm still running the stock 1.6 type 1, but the plan is a simple type 4 build, probably a 2056. Focus on the engine will only happen once it's running/driving again.

It's been a very slow going project ever since I got it, but I was recently informed that I'll have to move out of my current garage within 2 months time, so a lot more progress was made in the last weeks compared to the 10 or so years before that :P

This is what the car looked like for the last 4 years and still pretty much looks like at the moment:
2014-06-15 21.35.45.jpg2014-10-04 21.30.57.jpgIMG_20190806_203335.jpg

Last edited by $aint; August 13th 2019 at 16:27.
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  #2  
Old August 13th 2019, 15:02
$aint $aint is offline
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The focus is currently on wrapping up the initial suspension and brake setup.
As many other projects the basics are an upgrade to 944 parts, in the front mainly for the ventilated brakes and in the rear mainly for the wider track as well as for being able to use disc brakes.

For now for the front suspension I'll be using early 944 spindles and hubs combined with early 944 struts with B6 sports Bilstein inserts for a beetle (Bilstein P30-0040) which I modded a long time ago with a coil-over sleeve and combined with 60mm Eibach ERS springs (main + tender).
The Bilstein gland nut centers and secures the coil-over sleeve in place.
2014-10-04 18.06.31.jpg

In the end the plan is to use M030 944 spindles and hubs with proper coil-overs for late 944 but I don't have a solution yet for the positive camber the M030 spindles introduce over early 944 spindles and for now I'd also like to keep my stock speedometer. Early 944 spindles with the speedometer cable hole are a lot easier to work with for that

The brakes will probably be Boxster (986) front calipers with 911 3.2 front discs (they are also 24mm thick like Boxster front discs, but a bit smaller in diameter (282.5mm vs 298mm for the Boxster fronts)).
I'm not a big fan of these discs though since they are quiet heavy (5.6kg) and a bit small in diameter so I'm still looking at alternatives.

Last edited by $aint; August 13th 2019 at 15:36.
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  #3  
Old August 13th 2019, 15:22
$aint $aint is offline
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Ever since I started using the 944 front spindles I've been having difficulty getting the front suspension to a point where it has an acceptable amount of camber, with just the stock parts and early 944 spindles and the camber adjustment on the spindles/struts maximum negative I still had a massive amount of positive camber.

This is obviously a know issue with several options to fix it:
- Camber+ kit from Top Line Parts
- Camber plates
- Mod the strut and/or spindle
- Fabricate longer a-arms

I don't really want to modify my strut and/or spindles and whilst I would like to eventually fabricate some longer a-arms I currently don't have enough time for that so I'm going to try the camber+ kit combined with camber plates.

Last week I installed the camber plates made by Silver Project:
IMG_20190804_162104.jpgIMG_20190804_162123.jpg

I expected them to be out of aluminium but they are actually made out of steel so they are pretty heavy, even heavier than the stock mounts (930g vs 640g):
IMG_20190804_170423.jpgIMG_20190804_171624.jpg
So I might look into other options in the future, for now this will do.

Mounted them as well:
IMG_20190804_175902.jpg

After that I set them to full negative which didn't actually give that much extra negative camber (as I already expected, but still )

Unfortunately the floor in my garage is very uneven so I can't really do any precise camber measurements there, so I'm just going by rough measurements at the moment. Hope this will be better in the new location.

Last edited by $aint; August 15th 2019 at 07:46.
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  #4  
Old August 13th 2019, 16:31
H2OSB H2OSB is offline
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Your car is amazing similar to my '74 (though I'm insanely jealous of your R&P steering). My coil overs are VERY similar to yours. I have 944 housings with a Ground Control coil over kit(I'll try to add a pic from my phone in a bit), running 2.5 inch 120# springs. What are you doing for the rear? I have 26mm 924 upgrade torsion bars on the rear. I found them on the Auto Atlanta site on sale for $100 for the pair, brand new.

My other 1303('73) has 23.5mm 944 torsion bars, with a very similar front set up(but with Raceland coil overs from a VW Caddy...same 120#). I recently ran an autocross with the car (like you, stock 1600DP) and was astonished at how well it handled. It has Topline front and rear sway bars, and felt super neutral. Even in monsoon like rain, it was nearly impossible to break the rear loose. All that car needs is more power. Oh, it has CBPerformnce front and rear disc brakes. Nothing fancy, but perfectly effective. the suspension on that car, on the road, feels sporty but absolutely not punishing.

With the '74, my intent is to run stiffer springs and less sway. I already have the 26mm torsions like I said, but I've not gotten stiffer front springs. I plane to run the stock front sway bar with urethane bushings. On the rear, I have a 15mm 944 sway bar with brackets I made myself (for the torsion housings...I used created pieces and 944 pieces for the endlinks). My hypothesis is the light sways with still control lean but give a little more independence at each corner*.

The brakes on the '74 are stock 944 rear and a hybrid 944/914 set up on the front. Hybrid in that I'm using 944 spindles, hubs and rotors, with the rotors turned down enough to allow spaced out 914 front calipers to actually bolt to the 944 spindles. To space the calipers, I used the spacers from the REAR 911 M calipers, which are the exact same casting as the 914 fronts (but with a 35mm piston). It all seemed brilliant until I had to source bolts to hold it all together. 914 calipers use 7mm bolts to hold the halves together. Go ahead, see if you can find those online. I had to order them from Germany from a company called Tola Tool. They were the only company I could find with the right length AND hardness (12.9). They were EXPENSIVE, and shipping from Germany to California was nearly the same as the purchase price. At least they're socket head and not that silly Ribe style.

Ugh, sorry for the partial hyjack. I started my response with the intent to talking about an idea to deal with the camber issue.

First off, I tried Topline's extra eccentric inner control arm bolts. Then, I bought two sets of VW "crash bolts". Still I could only get about 0 degrees, and I was hoping for -2 to -2.5 degrees. Since you have the same strut housings as I do, you have a slotted top hole(incidentally, the Raceland coilovers I have on the other car have slotted top holes too). One day while staring at one strut any thinking about giving up on using 944 spindles, I realized the flange on the top crash bolts was big enough to limit the amount of camber I could get. I found a camber adjusting bolts made for 944s, by Whiteline(the were actually pretty cheap on Amazon). Suddenly, I had plenty of camber adjustment because the shaft of the bolts is 12mm, and, obviously, the camber bolts are made for the 944. So with the items I described and the Topline extra eccentric inner bolts, I'm able to get quite a bit of negative camber.

However, I have another idea to gain camber, and it goes along with your idea to have longer control arms. Since you have 944 spindles, I ASSume you have Kerscher ball joints. It has ALWAYS rankled me that Kerscher is the ONLY source for those ball joints. There's a company in Germany called Mike's Boxer Service. He got around the ball joint issue by using early Passat ball joints. You just have to remove the stock ball joint cup and do a small amount of side clearancing on the ball joint, then drill two holes. There's a whole thread about this on STFs but I'm too lazy to look it up and link it right now. Bottom line is, you can gain length for the control arm by changing where the holes are drilled (within reason).

That's all I got
H2OSB
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'74 1303, Outlaw sedan (with a GL flavor)
'73 1303, Sports Bug look
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  #5  
Old August 14th 2019, 13:57
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Wally Wally is offline
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Great intro mate! Is it an non-import original dutch car?
Because of the same color (L91Z I assume) and even the Boxster BBS rims, I also see a great resemblence ;-)
'Wheels maketh the car', hey? :-)

Like John, I also use the Topline caster+ inserts, they work great. Together with the slotted bottom strut hole where I used an eccentric bolt, I also get more then enough camber.
My problem has always been caster, so I used my top bearings to give maximum caster; its still 'just about' enough...even with the caster+ Topline front sway bar grommets..
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Old August 16th 2019, 16:58
$aint $aint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OSB View Post
...

Ugh, sorry for the partial hyjack. I started my response with the intent to talking about an idea to deal with the camber issue.

First off, I tried Topline's extra eccentric inner control arm bolts. Then, I bought two sets of VW "crash bolts". Still I could only get about 0 degrees, and I was hoping for -2 to -2.5 degrees. Since you have the same strut housings as I do, you have a slotted top hole(incidentally, the Raceland coilovers I have on the other car have slotted top holes too). One day while staring at one strut any thinking about giving up on using 944 spindles, I realized the flange on the top crash bolts was big enough to limit the amount of camber I could get. I found a camber adjusting bolts made for 944s, by Whiteline(the were actually pretty cheap on Amazon). Suddenly, I had plenty of camber adjustment because the shaft of the bolts is 12mm, and, obviously, the camber bolts are made for the 944. So with the items I described and the Topline extra eccentric inner bolts, I'm able to get quite a bit of negative camber.
No problem at all regarding the "hijack" Nice to see you're so enthousiastic about this!
I'll post an update/my plans for the rear asap, still trying to figure some things out.

I just mounted Topline's Camber+ kit and it seems like the camber is fine now, still have to do proper measurements somewhere but that'll take some time since the car is now on jack stands again to get a bunch of parts cleaned and plated.

Do you mean these camber adjusting bolts? http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_..._number=KCA412

They seem pretty similar to the H&R Triple C bolts http://www.hrsprings.com/applications/triplec

I actually have a pair of those but haven't tried them yet. Do you still have the stock 944 camber/slot at max negative at the top and then added the whiteline camber adjusting bolt at the bottom also at max negative?

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OSB View Post
However, I have another idea to gain camber, and it goes along with your idea to have longer control arms. Since you have 944 spindles, I ASSume you have Kerscher ball joints. It has ALWAYS rankled me that Kerscher is the ONLY source for those ball joints. There's a company in Germany called Mike's Boxer Service. He got around the ball joint issue by using early Passat ball joints. You just have to remove the stock ball joint cup and do a small amount of side clearancing on the ball joint, then drill two holes. There's a whole thread about this on STFs but I'm too lazy to look it up and link it right now. Bottom line is, you can gain length for the control arm by changing where the holes are drilled (within reason).

That's all I got
H2OSB
That's an interesting suggestion. Did a bit of searching and you probably mean this one https://mikes-boxerservice.com/luftwaffe.php ?
The last picture shows (a part of) the use passat ball-joint.

Seems like that setup is similar to the RX-7 ball-joint (see for example https://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/moog-k9427) where the ball-joint is attached to the a-arm with 2 bolts. I always found that a slightly scary way of doing things, but since it is/was used in factory cars it seems to be safe.

I'll see if I can make something like this happen. Seems to be less work than fabricating a-arms from scratch. Thanks for the tip!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
Great intro mate! Is it an non-import original dutch car?
Because of the same color (L91Z I assume) and even the Boxster BBS rims, I also see a great resemblence ;-)
'Wheels maketh the car', hey? :-)
Thanks! Tbh I don't know if it's an original Dutch car, I still have to order the "birth" certificate for it to be sure.
And yeah, it's atlasweiß as well Initially I wasn't the biggest fan of that color but it has really grown on me over the years and I really like it now. Will definitely stay this way.

And yeah, wheels definitely do kind of make the car and in combination with the color it does indeed resemble some other car
I don't have a sliding roof though

Tbh I have to admit I like the Sport Klassik II's that you're using even more than my current Sport Klassik I's, but that would maybe not the nicest thing to do, they would be very similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
Like John, I also use the Topline caster+ inserts, they work great. Together with the slotted bottom strut hole where I used an eccentric bolt, I also get more then enough camber.
My problem has always been caster, so I used my top bearings to give maximum caster; its still 'just about' enough...even with the caster+ Topline front sway bar grommets..
Yeah, the camber+ kit does seem to work great, seems to give quiet a significant amount of negative camber.

Did you slot the bottom hole yourself? And do you also have a slotted top hole on the strut as well?

Since I was still trying to get the camber in an acceptable range I haven't been messing around with caster yet, apart from using Topline's caster fix bushing (http://toplineparts.com/caster-fix-b...-sway-bar.html), which moves the rotation/mount point of the front rollbar slightly forward. Will measure it when doing the alignment and share the results.
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Old August 16th 2019, 20:11
H2OSB H2OSB is offline
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The picture from Mike's Boxer Service (MBS from here on out) is exactly what I was referring to. I agree it would be a bit sketchy if the ball join body were loose between the sides on the control arm(I want to say I've looked at the RX7 ball joint idea in the past, and I think it has a narrow rectangular tang), but if you were to trim carefully, it would be easy to have it "captured" between the sides of the control arm. The control arm is substantially thicking than one might think when viewed edge on. I also have an additional idea I will detail as I work on my own set. I am committed to the Passat BJ idea, however, as I've sold off my Kerscher BJs in disgust, quite honestly(if someone could explain why a ball joint should cost $54, I'd like to hear it). There's a guy from Romania on STFs who used Passat BJs after discussing it with Mike himself. His car is a driver and has been working well for some time with those BJs(and actually, MBS has been using this method for years without issue.). I'm hoping I can find some other Golf derived BJ of the same design but with a 15mm pin so I can interchange them as I have some MORE front brake ideas I want to explore.

Yes, I used those Whiteline camber bolts. I have a typical "crash bolt" in the bottom. Between all the different adjustments available, I no longer have a camber issue. Not sure about caster. I, too, have the caster fix bushings for the sway bar. The car is not on the road yet, however, so I don't if I have any kind caster problem.
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Old August 16th 2019, 22:26
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Jadewombat Jadewombat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $aint View Post


After that I set them to full negative which didn't actually give that much extra negative camber (as I already expected, but still )

Unfortunately the floor in my garage is very uneven so I can't really do any precise camber measurements there, so I'm just going by rough measurements at the moment. Hope this will be better in the new location.
Yeah, I went with some cheap spherical adjustable top mounts on my 1303 and I think I got 0.5 degrees additional. I don't remember, but it wasn't much.

You can get one of those triangular camber gauges that mounts on the outside of the wheel that will work even with an uneven surface. You just get a measurement of the ground first, roll the car to that spot then measure it and subtract the difference.
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Old August 17th 2019, 06:40
$aint $aint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OSB View Post
The picture from Mike's Boxer Service (MBS from here on out) is exactly what I was referring to. I agree it would be a bit sketchy if the ball join body were loose between the sides on the control arm(I want to say I've looked at the RX7 ball joint idea in the past, and I think it has a narrow rectangular tang), but if you were to trim carefully, it would be easy to have it "captured" between the sides of the control arm. The control arm is substantially thicking than one might think when viewed edge on. I also have an additional idea I will detail as I work on my own set. I am committed to the Passat BJ idea, however, as I've sold off my Kerscher BJs in disgust, quite honestly(if someone could explain why a ball joint should cost $54, I'd like to hear it). There's a guy from Romania on STFs who used Passat BJs after discussing it with Mike himself. His car is a driver and has been working well for some time with those BJs(and actually, MBS has been using this method for years without issue.). I'm hoping I can find some other Golf derived BJ of the same design but with a 15mm pin so I can interchange them as I have some MORE front brake ideas I want to explore.
Cool! I'd be interested in your findings/experience with the Passat ball-joint. If you get something going and want to a thread about it would be nice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2OSB View Post
Yes, I used those Whiteline camber bolts. I have a typical "crash bolt" in the bottom. Between all the different adjustments available, I no longer have a camber issue. Not sure about caster. I, too, have the caster fix bushings for the sway bar. The car is not on the road yet, however, so I don't if I have any kind caster problem.
So you're using the Whiteline camber bolts in the slot at the top?
How does that work? I've got the stock 944 adjuster in the top slot at full negative and I don't think I have much if any space left between the spindle's "ear" and the strut housing. Don't think I'd be able to get any more negative camber out of it by using those Whiteline bolts.
Would it also not wiggle around because of the slot in the strut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadewombat View Post
Yeah, I went with some cheap spherical adjustable top mounts on my 1303 and I think I got 0.5 degrees additional. I don't remember, but it wasn't much.

You can get one of those triangular camber gauges that mounts on the outside of the wheel that will work even with an uneven surface. You just get a measurement of the ground first, roll the car to that spot then measure it and subtract the difference.
Yeah, still have a list of tools to get. Some (digital) camber gauges that allow for easy zeroing are on that list
I hope it'll work well enough, the floor is all over the place, so not just off in one direction, might be a bit too much.
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