Mythbuster: continuing project thread of my 1303 '75

[TSAF]

Wallly, it seems to me you had a lot of fun. Tell us the truth now, did you "play" with any of the gt3's?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by TSAF

Wallly, it seems to me you had a lot of fun. Tell us the truth now, did you "play" with any of the gt3's?

I have said it again and will do so now: the Nurburgring is not about your car or the power you have and lack of. It really is about knowing the track or not and driver ability.
An experienced Ringdriver with half my power to weight ratio drives around me so to speak.
That day the track was partially wet and dry-ish and on some parts it rained a bit, so what do you think happens with people that ' play' with other cars to show off their power: yes, they hit the amco and pay thousands for repairs, at best. Worst case is you kill yourself or somebody else or even worse: the guy sitting beside me in the passenger seat and I can explain his wife and kids...
That doesn;t mean I drive there as a pussy. We experienced a rear end break-out and some more tire slippage and I caught both, but you don't play with any other cars there, really.
Not meaning to sound annoyed, but you should really experience it there, then you will have more respect for the track, trust me

[oasis]

Originally Posted by Wally

That doesn;t mean I drive there as a pussy.

I love this thread, and I love the most recent account of driving at this world famous track. The above quote almost got me in trouble as I am not supposed to bust out laughing while at work. Everything here is grimly serious.

Great stuff as usual.

[TSAF]

I understand what you mean as I also compete in FIA historic rallies as a co-driver(sporting). I am just joking around.

[Wally]

Alright then, sorry I took it so seriously

As 8 cars were more or less seriously damaged that day (even during the very slow pace training laps as you saw on the first video), I take these well meant comments sometimes too seriously as you can see

[TSAF]

No worries my friend.

[NO_H2O]

Looks like it was a great day. Any day you can drive the ring with an instructor and learn the track and your car is a good day.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by NO_H2O

Looks like it was a great day. Any day you can drive the ring with an instructor and learn the track and your car is a good day.

+1

TSAF:

Oasis: sorry my language almost got you into trouble. I only just got it

[70Turbobug]

Great pics Wally! Sounds like a great experience! The ring is no playground - that´s for sure! Going through such as course is worth it and actively driving the proper line teaches you the track better than anything else.I went through a week of motorcycle race school in Willow Springs when I was stationed at Edwards AFB,CA. which is right next to Willow Springs basically.I learned more that week than all the years of experience before and after.Most accidents occur when people think they can "Vettel around around the ring" after a few sessions of Gran Turismo on the play station and end up killing themselves..Never lose respect no matter what track you´re on - I learned the hard way after crashing the bike at over 200km/h - luckily I didn´t break anything but my shoulder still gives me trouble every now and then.

[Simon]

Maybe this could be of use/interest?
Although you probably don't want to switch your air-air intercooler for a water-air one and there isn't as much space available above the transmission compared to a 911

Originally Posted by Europeancarweb

The intercooler has been removed from the top of the engine, the factory location, and placed over the transmission to allow for maximum airflow through the Turbo decklid, and according to Schimmel it dramatically improves cooling performance within the forced induction system.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/featur...ochargers.html

[Wally]

Originally Posted by $aint

Maybe this could be of use/interest?
Although you probably don't want to switch your air-air intercooler for a water-air one and there isn't as much space available above the transmission compared to a 911

Did you know that the 9ff-boss changed the water-air chargecooler in favour of an air-air intercooler because...wait for it.... the air-air ones flowed and cooled better?
That was in one of his 1200hp record setting 911's

But really, I have no air intake temp problems or gains to be had in that department. IAT stays really low, even at 24psi boost ;-)

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Wally

Did you know that the 9ff-boss changed the water-air chargecooler in favour of an air-air intercooler because...wait for it.... the air-air ones flowed and cooled better?
That was in one of his 1200hp record setting 911's

But really, I have no air intake temp problems or gains to be had in that department. IAT stays really low, even at 24psi boost ;-)

Blue thunder explained it once as well, and air-air one is more efficient (for the same size/space) as a water-air one.

1.65 bar sounds good!

[ricola]

They are really for two different kinds of situation. For hard driving on sustained boost an air/air would be better, for normal more varied driving a water/air would be better. The water has a MUCH higher conductivity and thermal capacity so it absorbs the peak temperatures much better, the only problem then is that you are then on to the next limiting factor which is the volume of water and how effectively you can cool that. Also there is the additional weight to factor in for the air/water system but it also has the benefits of generally having shorter pipework required so slightly better response.

At the end of the day all installations like ours are bespoke, as are the builder's requirements...

Wally has obviously got his to work well with short pipework so is definitely on to a winning solution!

[Steve C]

Hi

An advantage for drags etc with a air 2 water IC is that you can fit a ice box in the system to really take the heat out of the cooling water, not really practical on road car.

On a road car you cant stay on boost for very long until you have to back off, so a air 2 water IC will smooth out the spikes in intake temps, were Wallys air 2 air IC is a winner for him is that when the motor needs the cooler intake temps his car is usually travelling at constant high speeds with lots of air flow over the IC.

Steve

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Steve C

Hi

An advantage for drags etc with a air 2 water IC is that you can fit a ice box in the system to really take the heat out of the cooling water, not really practical on road car.

On a road car you cant stay on boost for very long until you have to back off, so a air 2 water IC will smooth out the spikes in intake temps, were Wallys air 2 air IC is a winner for him is that when the motor needs the cooler intake temps his car is usually travelling at constant high speeds with lots of air flow over the IC.

Steve

Yeah, very true Steve, but probably because of the sheer size of my air-air intercooler, I even see intake temps going down the short runs of the 1/4 mile.
Right on the starting line, after waiting and idling in hot summer periods, temps do climb however, but the water/meth injection usually takes care of those elevated temps. Temps never got over 40-45 Celcius IAT after an hour or more of standing still, heatsoaking while waiting after hot 1/4 mile runs, (the worst possible conditions therefore).
The alternative of Armin Klein (horizontal air-air intercoolers inside the engine compartment with fans under both sides) is more subtle though and seems to work very well for him too