Super Suspension vs. Standard Weight

[mattfaulkner]

Superman: I'll be honest with you. The 1303 is sounding like a better platform to start with all the time. It may be 55 or so lbs heavier than the same year standard, but with a curved windshield (aero advantage?), better steering, and coilovers, it may be the ticket for ultimate type 1 performance.

[vujade]

Originally Posted by mattfaulkner

Superman: I'll be honest with you. The 1303 is sounding like a better platform to start with all the time. It may be 55 or so lbs heavier than the same year standard, but with a curved windshield (aero advantage?), better steering, and coilovers, it may be the ticket for ultimate type 1 performance.

Ive just stepped up from a 71 1302 to a 75 1303 and with its Rack & Pinion
steering it is even another step forward in the driving experience. I am glad
that I chose the 1303 as a platform for another GL. On the flip, an early
standard cant be beat for straightline performance

[Dennis]

I have a 70 standard with a 2275 and a close ratio box. I'm in the process of upgrading the brakes to 944 turbo on all 4 wheels, from a ghia front disk/drum rear set-up. I'm also changing the 15 inch Fuchs wheels to 17X7 front and 17X8.5 rear Porsche Boxter twists. In other words it's a cal-look that is about to be changed to a GL.
If I had to do it all over I would start with a Super if what I wanted was a high horsepower track car. Not that the standard is all that bad in the handling area. It's just that the strut suspension is better when it comes to cornering. You could make some improvements to the front suspension on the standard and it would come close to matching the handling of the super. But with the super the improvements are already there.

The 55 pound difference is nothing. If you want to lighten up the car you can replace the steel fenders with fiberglass and reduce weight in other areas of the car. But the weight difference shouldn't be an issue when making a choice.

[Pillow]

... you all are making me think too much as well!!!

From my experience though the rear end was the weak part in the suspension of a standard IRS Beetle. Which would apply to a Super as well. The rears are just too soft.

Also on the Super to make it look "right" the rear needs widened with 'glass fenders and 944 wide control arms. Which is work no matter what.

Granted I like the 1303s curved window and short hood look. plus the truck is actually usable!

... Still more thinking...

[vujade]

Originally Posted by Pillow

From my experience though the rear end was the weak part in the suspension of a standard IRS Beetle. Which would apply to a Super as well. The rears are just too soft.

You could always use the 944 torsion bars or an uprated Sway away bar to stiffen up the rear end.

Also on the Super to make it look "right" the rear needs widened with 'glass fenders and 944 wide control arms. Which is work no matter what.

I agree completely about the rear needing to be widened on a Super...

Granted I like the 1303s curved window and short hood look. plus the truck is actually usable!

I cant agree with you more

Originally Posted by mattfaulkner

but with a curved windshield (aero advantage?),

I don't have the numbers handy, but IIRC, the drag cd was only slightly better. Yes, the curved windshield is more aerodynamic but the bigger area of the front hood makes up in drag.

[jimby]

ill keep you posted about our Aircooled Cup exploits as we are running a mixture of cars, standard right back to 55 and supers too. while we cant change the shape of out cars by adding large rear wings we will be fitting flat trays under the entire length and width of my oval, this was suggested by a friend who is currently employed by renault F1 team as an aerodynamic engineer. also whlie speaking to the guys that run the Uniroyal Fun Cup cars they said that the large rear wing make a big difference in cornering speeds, sometimes as much as 3 seconds on a large circuit like spa.

[Chris Percival]

Originally Posted by jimby

we will be fitting flat trays under the entire length and width of my oval.

I have thought about doing this on my '03. Its really quite easy on a bug..

[Uber Affe]

oops capslock on..hehhe

anyway...check out my drarw-rings
erk...
I be smart ah..erk...me more smart dan you...me dink of first!
ok...just bein weird..I'm sure it's been tried before at least.

[vujade]

Originally Posted by Uber Affe

oops capslock on..hehhe

anyway...check out my drarw-rings
erk...
I be smart ah..erk...me more smart dan you...me dink of first!
ok...just bein weird..I'm sure it's been tried before at least.

I think that releasing the air in front of the windshiefd may cause lift
on the car... I believe that it would be better if the air could be funneled
to the rear of the car.... :agree:

[MattKab]

Nobody has mentioned the superior symmetrical steering on all Supers, and the orbital-steer characteristic of the short track rod found on the drivers side on all standards. I adore both equally but the 'Ultimate T1 experience' has a rack'n'pinion steering in my experience. I had 5 standards before getting serious with a RHD 1979 US spec Karmann Bug. I feel arrow striaght and stable at high speed, I look at weight distribution, but I'm not scared of weight. That's where the T4 comes into it

Keith Seumes biggest book 'Beetle' clearly states Karmann Bug's weigh the same as their sedan counterparts of the same year. I'm not convinced about that at all.


Matt