Twin Turbo is on it's way!

[volkdent]

Get an STI motor then tweak it. Manufacturers have to have reliability built into their products, aftermarkets don't, so start with the most power you can find STOCK then start getting bigger.

Jason

[lazylongboarder]

Originally Posted by volkdent

Get an STI motor then tweak it. Manufacturers have to have reliability built into their products, aftermarkets don't, so start with the most power you can find STOCK then start getting bigger.

Jason

That's exactly my plan! I'll use the EJ20 long block until it blows up then take a STI block, close the deck, add T sleeves, Forged pistons and rods, use my heads, port and polish, 5 angle valve job, titanium retainers, dual valve springs, titanium valves, GT35 ball bearing turbo, 255 ltr fuel pump, 960 cc injectors, turbo-smart 38mm waste gate, and other fun goodies to get 500+ hp.

The only weak link to the STI short block are the pistons and rods. They can handle 500 hp, but not reliably. And especially trying to get those figures on pump gas 91 will be close to impossible. My cell phone bill is rediculous this month just because I speak to so many subaru tuner shops and ask advice. The majority of the shops will tell you to start out with an EJ20TT (because of the better heads compared to the EJ20T) or STI motor then when either of them blow, close the deck, put rods and pistons in and add on to the heads over time.

The reason why I went with the EJ20TT over the STI engine is because comparing the prices; 950+shipping to the STI's 4800+shipping, and the 24 extra horse power wasn't worth the extra $3850. Also, a complete replacement motor through nippon motors is only $650, so i'll throw as much boost as I feel like without worrying about destroying difficult (read expensive) machine work, internals, block, ect. like it would be like if I was building up a T1 or T4. It seemed like the logical choice to get things on the car sorted out through time then add to it. It didn't make sense to me to put the star destroyer motor out back before i had the suspension dialed in and every thing totally tight and true (HA, like 350 isn't enough in a bug).

Ok heres the bill as I see it:
EJ20TT-875 shipped (amazing deal)
Single turbo conversion:
Header from Outback-400
Wastegate-250
T3/T4 turbo-400
Fuel rails with 50 lbs injectors-400
Fuel pump-150
Haltech EMS-1150 with sensors
Haltech coil packs and ignitors-200
Plumbing-200

$4025= 400 hp $10.06 per horsey

I could skip the single turbo conversion and stay with the twins and get 320 no problem, which i'll probably end up doing then do the swap, then blow the motor, then get the STI shortblock.

Oh well, I hope everything goes smoothly.

Next step...multi-link rear suspension from a 993.

[jonas_linder]

How does the stock TT header(s) look ??

I want pictures!

[lazylongboarder]

Originally Posted by jonas_linder

How does the stock TT header(s) look ??

I want pictures!

Hopefully I'll get the motor tomorrow or monday, then I'll update ya'll with a bunch of pictures of the headers and disassembly process.

The thing that really tempts me to keep the twins is that since they are sequentially controlled, power from the little turbo (really small T2) starts to kick in at 1800 rpm! I've seen dyno sheets of this motor putting out 280 pound feet of torque at only 3300 rpm with only a piggy-back ECU, intake, and exhaust!

I'll be using a fully programable sequential Haltech EMS. This gives me the ability to adjust boost,air/fuel ratios, timing, idle speed, launch control ect, at any rpm at any time with my laptop. Meaning if the motor runs lean at 6250 rpm and rich at 6900, I can adjust the air/fuel ratio at the seperate rpm's to get the perfect 14.7 pressure, and also beyond that, I can set the timing to retard even more and more with more boost at higher rpm's... so basically, yeah everything is adjustable. Motec does the same thing for $2000 more, Do I want the name? Or do I want to finish the car before i'm thirty :shrug: ?

The bet is still on with some friends and family that i can't get the car done by July 15th 2006... so Russell has no life and no money to spend on his girlfriend for the next 10 months . I even cut down on the booze to get this car done :haveadrin !

[71superbug]

Just to clarify..a rotary is not unreliable if looked after..just like any car.

secondly, you CAN put the radiator/radiators in the back.

a design i might be doing, which is the same as ian swinkles is to have two litle radiators from PWR. one under each rear fender with a fan on each.

ian swinkles runs this setup with GREAT success. and very little cutting required compared to mounting it up the front.

good to see antoher conversion on its way though.


Anthony

[bean_8044]

Dont mean to threadjack, but you have any more info on that radiator setup? Ive pretty much settled on cutting out the area behind the back seat and installing a 31" 2core aluminum, but it would be nice to leave that area intact.

[71superbug]

if you were asking me that question bean then i will get back to you with some info and possibly a website that has the isntall details.


Anthony

[lazylongboarder]

Originally Posted by 71superbug

Just to clarify..a rotary is not unreliable if looked after..just like any car.

secondly, you CAN put the radiator/radiators in the back.

a design i might be doing, which is the same as ian swinkles is to have two litle radiators from PWR. one under each rear fender with a fan on each.

ian swinkles runs this setup with GREAT success. and very little cutting required compared to mounting it up the front.

good to see antoher conversion on its way though.


Anthony

I can understand that if the motor is "looked after" and it's well taken care of, it has the ability to be a reliable motor, in stock form. But with the addition of performance products and cost effectiveness, the EJ20 seemed to be the logical choice. I'm purchasing everything with the intent to swap it over to the previously mentioned monster shortblock with the exception of the turbo. Anything too large will be laggy on the 2.0, but the 2.5 has quite a bit more exhaust velocity/volume, so, obviosly a better choice for high HP/Torque.

After speaking to a couple of the leading tuners that work on both motors, rotary motors are "unreliable under high boost pressures with stock housings, and rotors." If guys that build and tune the motors all day say that the rotary motor is more difficult to work with, less reliable on a stock block, and more expensive to get high HP #'s with, I went with the logical choice...Subaru's EJ20TT.

Make the decision for yourself though, this seemed to be the right motor for me. I made a new thread adding up the prices for a complete motor with 250 hp that added up to be $1500 USD, minus the radiator (everyone has there own theory on where the best place to put it and which to use. Dodge caravan radiators are widely used up front with no cooling issues and fit well.

The best people to talk to about Subaru motors are:

Chris or Tom at Danzioperformance.com (In my oppinion, the best, very knowledgeable, excellent suggestions, and work with many differant motors, specialize in Subaru, LS1,LS2,LS6,Northstar, and rotary motors) 951-245-2537

Crawford performance (The best street subaru motor builder on the planet) 760-631-2927

Xcceleration.com (very high HP, pricey) 1-860-985-3006

Outbackmotors.com (the best sandrail subaru motor builder) 714-994-5222 (talk to Jon, Mack shatters my hopes and dreams everytime I talk to him)

Best of luck to ya,
I'll post pictures of the project tomorrow

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by lazylongboarder

I'll post pictures of the project tomorrow

Ahem, Pictures? Please?