4 or 5-speed? And wich one??

[vujade]

a 5 speed or a 4 speed are not going to be able to handle horsepower
any differently then each other. thats a load

the strength of the tranny has more to do with the tranny case,
the differential, the ring and pinion and all the other internal pieces
inside. For instance... I 3.88 R&P is going to be stronger then a 4.12
or 4.37 VW R&P. A Super Beetle Mainshaft is stronger then regular
beetle Mainshafts. Aftermarket gears are going to be stronger then
stock gears...

The reason one would choose a 5 speed over a 4 speed it to be at the
right RPM range thru every gear, plus have a 5th gear for overdrive. The main
downside to having a 4 speed is that you have to space all 4 gears very
far apart so that you can attain high speeds. This means you will be in each
gear for a longer period of time then a properly geared 5 speed which
will equate to a less then efficient situation do to the fact that you are
not really staying in the proper RPM ranges with the 4 speed equating to
slower 0-60 times, 1/4 mile times and accerlation times.

I have owned a 914 with a 1.7 Type 5 and 901 5 speed and let me tell you
that it is an excellent tranny for a Type 4. Once you get used to the shift
pattern, it is a very fun car to drive. One word of caution, the 901 is not
a drag racing tranny. It is setup for track racing and autocross do to the
dogleg pattern.

[NO_H2O]

You can NOT launch a 901/914 trans. off the line very hard or it WILL break. 1st gear on a 901 is in the nose cone (supported on 1 end with a bearing and the other end is supported by a bushing in the nose cone. 2nd-5th are in the main case (supported on both ends of the shaft with bearings). You can give it all the hell you want to after you are rolling or in 2nd gear. Just dont hole shot it. The 915 has 1st-4th in the main case and 5th in the nose cone. The 930 didn't realy need a 5 speed as it had plenty of power to get thru the gears. After the G50 was introduced it was put in the turo cars and faired very well.

[Bugat5speed]

The 901 /914 gearbox is no tranny for the quarter, cause the 1st gear is too short and the shift pattern is normally not that what you expect (or expected in the past, as I can shift my 914 quicker as a 915, due to my new shifter).

Think that you guys didn´t read my info about my conversion parts. It´s already a long time ago that lots of modifications were necessary to be made to put a 914 or 901 into a Bug. Had these problems about 12-15 years ago and then started to build these conversion parts that allow a easy installation into Beetles (have a look at ULTRAVW, issue March 2005 for example, or VW Speed 11/2005, or VWTech, issue 18, or visit my site).

What are we talking about when you talk of torque and too much torque for a gearbox. I do agree, that if you work with nearly 300 Nm or more than 300 Nm and drive on the strip then it doesn´t make sense to drive a 901 or 914 tranny. But which type 4 (without turbo) that you want to build or buy (for money that one can affort) has more than 270/280 Nm?

But if it is really so, that you have more torque, then I can also healp you with the same conversion for the 915 tranny.
But be sure. We mainly use them for very strong type 4 with at least 2.7 litres (better 2.9 litres) and Turbo-engines (for example Subaru with 280 PS and 340 Nm).
If you don´t like the shift pattern I do accept, but all the other arguments can not really be accepted by me.

It´s a pitty that I can not let you test my car, or a customer´s car. Then I think most of you would change their minds.

Don´t want to make trouble. Hope that my English does not give the impression that I want to.

Cheers Martin

[Sandeep]

When I did my 914 trans swap into my beetle, it was very straight forward after doing a TON of research.

If you are using a T4 engine, why not use the gearbox that was meant to go with that engine ? Making a front mount is no big deal and the shift rod is a peice of cake if you use 2 U-joints and a piece if steel tubing. Use a Scat Dragfast shifter and you are laughing.

The gear pattern is OK ... I rarely use first gear in my beetle anyways ... I've got enough torque to start off in second ... and only use first to play with the Ricers at the lights.

I got my nosecone/hockey stick for cheap and the gearbox was reasonably priced.

Sandeep

[Supa Ninja]

I'm doing the exact same tranny swap as Sandeep, a '67 Al 911/901 with 914 gears, and I'll be running a stock 2.0L with the same shifter and two u-joints. I don't know how it will work in my 1302 but I have a feeling it will be a good setup since my 914 has a excellent gear ratio for what I want to do with the car. I have driven a bug for most of my life and having a 5 speed type IV is a vast improvement! Like Sandeep said research, research, then some more research!

Nick

[NO_H2O]

I will be doing the same coversion (when I get some free time). I have a 66 911 901 with 914 gearing/shifter and all the new stuff to rebuild it. I was just stating that it will not take drag style hole shots. I have known a few folks that had Berg 5's and had problems with them.

[lazylongboarder]

Just go with a G-50 ...

If you are worried about not having a strong enough tranny, the 5 speed from the 964 C-2 handles 600 pound feet of torque and the 6 speed from the 993 S handles 800 pound feet in a 3200 lbs car!

I think 540 hp and the 6 speed will be sufficient for road racing (wait for it, Wait FOR IT)

LUDICRIS SPEED, GO!

[oasis]

Originally Posted by Sandeep

Making a front mount is no big deal

For who?

Originally Posted by Sandeep

and the shift rod is a peice of cake if you use 2 U-joints and a piece if steel tubing.

For who?

Originally Posted by Sandeep

When I did my 914 trans swap ...

Ah, now we're getting somewhere.

Originally Posted by Sandeep

If you are using a T4 engine, why not use the gearbox that was meant to go with that engine ?

A 914 has a 5-speed. So does the one-year 912. All other Type IV's came with four-speeds, however -- the 411, the 412, the Type 2 (bus), and the Type 25 (Vanagon).

To answer your question beyond the fact there were more Type IV's with four-speeds than five-speeds, not everyone has a garage and/or the know-how to be doing a DIY conversion.

I don't.

Also, not everyone wants to do a full-on conversion requiring special modifications.

Again, I don't.

The more threads I see in the Transmission folder posing questions about this, that and the other thing with regards to any Porsche tranny, the more I want to shy away from it. I am not a DIY'er. I won't be spending a month of Sundays tweaking this and converting that.

Now, I will say I would prefer a five-speed all things being equal. And I would have no problems paying more for it. I even prefer the 2-5 H-pattern truth be known. (I test-drove many 914's before buying a Fiat way back when.) When I owned my Vanagon, I often wanted to take it to a fifth gear.

But it has to be something straight-forward to install and straight-forward to maintain.

I wish I had the know-how you guys have so my definition of straight-forward would be the same as yours. I don't. And I won't be shipping my car across the Atlantic anytime soon either. That would be nonsense.

Originally Posted by Sandeep

I rarely use first gear in my beetle anyways ... I've got enough torque to start off in second ... and only use first to play with the Ricers at the lights.

So in effect, you have a four-speed, too. I'm just kidding.

BTW, all VW's with four speeds are overdrive in fourth. And I'm not offended by differing opinions becasue I fully understand there are differing perspectives from mine. I would prefer my opinion based on my research not be called nonsense. I want to be talked into a five-speed when the day comes I get my 2270 or similar.

[Sandeep]

Oasis,

If you are looking for a bolt in 5 speed solution, perhaps Martin's kit is what you need.

If you have a buddy with a welder, the fab work is simple ... I think I spent about 10$ in materials for the front mount and the shift rod (not including the u-joints). You have to be comfortable with removing the engine and stock transmission by yourself.

I wish I had known about Martin's kit when I built my setup .. would have taken less time to get it installed.

Driving a bug with a proper 5 speed is quite an experience ... I'm talking properly spaced gearing ... not a close ratio 4 and then a big gap between 4th and 5th or a 4 speed with a huge gap between 3rd and 4th.

Either Berg 5 or 901 ... you do have a choice ... I've made mine

Its fun keeping up with a C230 kompressor on the highway at 190 kph

Sandeep

[oasis]

I never heard of Martin's. Although I don't know a welder now, I may get to know one. (Six months ago I didn't know anyone who could machine alloy wheels like my BBS's but necessity forced me into action.)

I'm still a bit away from drivetrain improvements. When I get closer, I will revisit this post and ask a few more questions. I'm assuming a 2270 will be in the 125-150 hp and ft-lbs range. (I don't know how the latter translates in terms of Nm.)

You also mentioned Berg. Do you thing their 5-speed is up to snuff with my probable engine?

Thanks for good information.