Mikey's Ghia Thread...

[Mikey]

I've been lazy for a while, but I'm back after it hot and heavy. It's going to be finished. I worked 4 hours both monday and tuesday, 6 hours wednesday and today, and about 8 thursday. Along with working at the shop about 3-4 hours right after I finish with my car. 10am til 9pm makes for some very long days.

I have my fenders Finished. well, as close as I can get them, they match too. Side to side. I also have the rear inner fenders peiced back in place. That has been a chore, a few days have been spent just on that, and I'm still at least 1 day away from moving up top. I have a few more places to fix in the body for I start preping it for paint. I can't wait, I want to start thinking about the 2007 show season, but I don't want to put the buggy before the horse, I have to finish the car first.

I wanted to avoid it as much as possible but the fenders will have filler in them. I'm sure Dave and Yeti will help. From bare metal, where do I go? Epoxy primer? Filler? High build?? I'm totaly lost. I can ask Tim, but I want to get a second opinion first. Where I can, I'm going to take it down to bare metal.

I have a goal, for it to be painted or VERY close by the end of january. I know it's crazy, but if I work every chance I have, I know I can make it. Tim said by the end of March. I kinda want to prove him wrong too.

Thanks,

[wrenchnride247]

Originally Posted by Mikey

I wanted to avoid it as much as possible but the fenders will have filler in them. I'm sure Dave and Yeti will help. From bare metal, where do I go? Epoxy primer? Filler? High build?? I'm totaly lost. I can ask Tim, but I want to get a second opinion first. Where I can, I'm going to take it down to bare metal.

Regular body filler works best on bare metal. Shape the filler as close to smooth and level as you can, then shoot two coats of primer just on the filler work. Then shoot the rest with three coats (so thats five coats just on body filler sections) of primer. Your going to be sanding those filler area's more than the rest of the car. So, the two extra coats on the filler will help to "block" the area out with less recoats. If you've never done auto body before... I suggest getting a book on the subject (cheaper and less time consuming then redoing everything ) I use Evercoat, and House of Kolor products (sometimes PPG). Check out www.hok.com for some good info on lots of products. There are links in a nav bar that takes you to sister sites with book's, tool's, and color codes. Hope this helps.

[Rob]

Hey Mike,

Glad to see you are still at it. I admire your persistance and courage in taking on all these changes. Car is looking good, keep us posted !

Rob.

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by wrenchnride247

Check out www.hok.com for some good info on lots of products.

Is that the right website? I saw a bunch of buildings. I'll do a search after I get home later tonight.

Thanks Rob, It's been a long, long road but there is an end in sight. I just have to work harder.

[wrenchnride247]

Originally Posted by Mikey

Is that the right website? I saw a bunch of buildings. I'll do a search after I get home later tonight.

Thanks Rob, It's been a long, long road but there is an end in sight. I just have to work harder.

Oops! Sorry Mikey . Its: www.hokpaint.com

[yetibone]

I'm nowhere close to being an expert on paint and bodywork, but I now know far more than I ever wanted to about the craft. Wrenchnride has the right idea. When you apply your filler directly to bare metal you will get the best adhesion. On my car, I rubbed the spots to be filled real good with 80 grit to give the filler a good hook into the surface.

For primer, you can use Urethane based 2K primer, or Epoxy primer. 2K primer is good high build material. Most can be applied to bare metal, builds up good to give you some sanding room, and dries flat with no orange peel to sand out. Epoxy primer can seal out moisture, most will apply to bare metal, and can be bondoed over if needed. A friend in the biz recomended http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/ for their epoxy primer. He said it is user-friendly for DIY projects, and high quality for professionals. They're semi-local too, so you'll be supporting Georgia's private commerce sector .

If your car's got a lot of small low spots to fill, or metal/filler spots to be blended you can use Dave's favorite primer, Evercoat Slicksand which will build extremely high, and dry hard. I found out it's often used to repair hail damage, and door dings. I used it on about 80% of mine to make sure I filled all the small creases and dings, and to blend the welded repairs I did. It works great in place of blending putty, but dried with an orange peel that needed some dry sanding.

Just don't use a self etching primer. Anything polyester based (most fillers, some surface primers) won't stick to it. The stuff I used dried very slow for some reason, and was a pain to remove from the areas that needed filler. Actually, by removing it from places that needed filler really works against the purpose for using it in the first place, which is to seal the bare metal.

[zeroaxe]

By no means do I want to start an argument, but the idea is to share our experiences/thoughts right? With that being said....

I personally would not put filler directly on bare steel. Filler is pourus(sp?) and can actually absorb moisture, which would be undetectable to the eye, causing rust later in the car's life. Personal experience we used an Etch primer on CLEAN, Oil free metal(even natural skin oil, like when you touch the metal with your bare hands) to eat into the metal. After that we used a good quality Epoxy primer. The above two layers were put on as 'wash coats'(ie. VERY thin coats). The car was left for a few days to 'cure', to make sure ALL sovents evaporated etc. After that we used filler. I have seen cars come back with paintjobs not older than 4 months were filler started to lift, and upon closer inspection, I found that no Etch primer or Primer was used.

Then again, this was my personal experience/s...

[wrenchnride247]

Zero, sharing is what these forum's are for . I'm sure there are some companys that may say apply there filler over primer, but Evercoat does not (unless its just glazing putting). If your bare metal is prepped correctly 36-80 grit sand scrathes, pre cleaner used, then a quality filler applied, sand, epoxy prime, sand, primer sealer, base coat, (mid coat for some jobs) and then clear coat. There should be no moisture, and no filler coming off depending on how thick the filler is (too thick and any filler will come off). It sounds like some prep was missed on the jobs you saw this happening on (that's 90% of paint failures, plus incompatable materials from different companies)

I use House Of Kolor paint products (15 years now) and Evercoat products (6 years). Both companies recommend applying filler to bare metal. I've used PPG, Diamont, and BASF products for a few job's as well. Across the pond there are different laws that require different proccedures... such as using water based products as much as possible (except clear coats)

Personally, why would I want to change the way Jon Kosmoski (founder-painter) of House Of Kolor explains how He's done it for 50 years in several book's He's published about Paint and body work .

I'm not arguing... just stating facts

[yetibone]

Originally Posted by zeroaxe

By no means do I want to start an argument, but the idea is to share our experiences/thoughts right? With that being said....

I personally would not put filler directly on bare steel. Filler is pourus(sp?) and can actually absorb moisture, which would be undetectable to the eye, causing rust later in the car's life. Personal experience we used an Etch primer on CLEAN, Oil free metal(even natural skin oil, like when you touch the metal with your bare hands) to eat into the metal. After that we used a good quality Epoxy primer. The above two layers were put on as 'wash coats'(ie. VERY thin coats). The car was left for a few days to 'cure', to make sure ALL sovents evaporated etc. After that we used filler. I have seen cars come back with paintjobs not older than 4 months were filler started to lift, and upon closer inspection, I found that no Etch primer or Primer was used.

Then again, this was my personal experience/s...

I was actually told the same thing...The guy that painted my Triumph said he recomends laying down epoxy primer first,..then using filler.

Polyester can bond to epoxy primer better than bare metal, and WAAAAY better than it can bond to etch primer. The metal will always be sealed from moisture by the etch primer, and epoxy.

I didn't know this 'till I was finishing out my filler work on bare metal with the rest of the car covered in etch primer. Had I known filler would stick to epoxy, I would have gone from treated bare metal, to etch primer, to epoxy primer, to filler, to final coat of primer, to wet sand, to paint. Instead, I just left the epoxy primer out of the formula, and applied filler to bare metal treated with wax and grease remover.