Mythbuster: continuing project thread of my 1303 '75

[Wally]

Originally Posted by $aint

Hi Walter,

Long time no see!
More than 400 horses, pretty impressive :O

How are you liking the AA birals so far/how are they holding up?

I was wondering why you picked the birals instead of the plain iron cylinders, I'd expect the biral ones to be a bit weaker.
And did you do any machining/honing to them or are they stock?

Cheers,
Simon

Hey Simon,

Thanks! And very good to hear from you again! That has indeed been a looooong time!

I like the birals very much: in fact, I slao was a little worried about their thin-ish wall thickness, but they have withstand over 100hp per barrel without issue. So that is a true testiment to them imo.

The reason to fit those birals in the first place was because it was the ONLY stock 98mm cylinder on the market after I had burn a hole in my home-made cast all alu-nikasil cylinders...
This way I could re-use the JE pistons and could rebuild the engine relatively quickly.
After all, it seemed a little too quickly as I had accidently made a mistake (it happens ) and switched pistons, which meant the valve pockets didn;t line up and the intakes finally did hit the pistons. The had less then 1mm clearence without the valve pockets lining up, so at 9000RPM it lived, which was surprising in itself, even more without reserve as it turned out.

Long story short, rebuilding the engine again as it did received quite a bit of damage on valves (bend) and pistons/cylinder and I am now gonna use 102mm Deutz cylinders and new pistons.
Will also use a JPM cam, which Johannes 'agreed upon'

So, no more meets for this year unfortunately. I did reach my goal of 400hp at 1 bar, but the 10-second run still has to be done. Only then will I sleep again

I spilled my beans, but what are you working on yourself atm?
cheers, Walter

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Wally

Hey Simon,

Thanks! And very good to hear from you again! That has indeed been a looooong time!

I like the birals very much: in fact, I slao was a little worried about their thin-ish wall thickness, but they have withstand over 100hp per barrel without issue. So that is a true testiment to them imo.

The reason to fit those birals in the first place was because it was the ONLY stock 98mm cylinder on the market after I had burn a hole in my home-made cast all alu-nikasil cylinders...
This way I could re-use the JE pistons and could rebuild the engine relatively quickly.

OK, that's good to hear. I was/am considering some AA cylinders and pistons for the type4 engine (it's not running yet, had a lot of other stuff that distracted me, time flies apparently ). Not sure if I'll pick the birals over the plain iron ones though.
And obviously you have (or had ) some nice pistons already, the AA ones are probably significantly less nice, but I'm not planning on running a turbo at the moment, so should be fine I guess .

Originally Posted by Wally

After all, it seemed a little too quickly as I had accidently made a mistake (it happens ) and switched pistons, which meant the valve pockets didn;t line up and the intakes finally did hit the pistons. The had less then 1mm clearence without the valve pockets lining up, so at 9000RPM it lived, which was surprising in itself, even more without reserve as it turned out.

Long story short, rebuilding the engine again as it did received quite a bit of damage on valves (bend) and pistons/cylinder and I am now gonna use 102mm Deutz cylinders and new pistons.
Will also use a JPM cam, which Johannes 'agreed upon'

So, no more meets for this year unfortunately. I did reach my goal of 400hp at 1 bar, but the 10-second run still has to be done. Only then will I sleep again

Ohw, really sucks to hear that, sounds like a painful learning experience
On the other good to hear you've already got new plans! (obviously! ).
Haven't seen these Deutz cylinders before. Are they for a type4 or for some other engine and repurposed?

If you want to share I'd be interested to know why you're going with 102mm vs the 98mm you had (or anything else for that matter).
I still have a bunch of these decisions to make as well (2056, 2270, etc)

And 9000 RPM is quiet a bit, do you make that regularly?

Originally Posted by Wally

I spilled my beans, but what are you working on yourself atm?
cheers, Walter

Well, I have to move my car out of it's current home end of September and I'm trying to make it so that it can be driven out instead of towed or on an ambulance
Quiet a bit of work to do, especially since I'd like to wrap up some of the suspension changes I was working on (do or don't do M030 suspension front, uniball or GWD torsion bar covers in the rear, do or don't do 944 bilstein cup coilovers in the rear, etc).
I'll be using the stock engine for this, simply because I won't have enough time to finish that as well, but this sudden call to action was a good reminder that I should finish the type4 conversion
That will probably be a project for this winter.
Also I received a bunch of "vrij rijden" gift cards which I'd like to use
I'll create a topic here either this or next week to post some updates.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by $aint

Haven't seen these Deutz cylinders before. Are they for a type4 or for some other engine and repurposed?

If you want to share I'd be interested to know why you're going with 102mm vs the 98mm you had (or anything else for that matter).
I still have a bunch of these decisions to make as well (2056, 2270, etc)

And 9000 RPM is quiet a bit, do you make that regularly?

Deutz is a tractor manufactorer and is always a diesel engine...The older jugs are better to use, but harder to find and as the word seems to be out about these (old autocrossers used these 25 years ago already..), prices on ebay for used barrels are up. They used to be 'free' (tossed from old broken engines)

With Original head castings I would always keep as small a bore as possible as the heads warp originally already, even more so when fly-cut and even more so when 'openend up' for big bore. Everything you cut away is a weakening...

However, the Original 98mm bore idea had a long history from when friends made a set of custom made alu-'nikasil' cylinders and the were in 98mm, no choice there, but enough for a turbo engine

However again..., with the billet heads I now use, warping is not an issue anymore, but I also want to keep the case openings as small as possible as opening that also weakens the case (spigot). The edges where the cylinders rest are extremely small on engines that run the standard 103mm bore cylinders. I don't like that for a (really) big hp engine.

As one doesn't always have free choice and everything is a bit of a comprimise, I got a very good 'deal' on the cylinders which were 102mm to begin with, so I'll have the bottom turned down a little to minimize wall (2mm) and keep case strength up a bit.
I'd rather had 100mm and keep that 1mm more in the case, but sometimes you also go with what you have and its probably not really that much of an issue and the extra cc's give a bit more bottom torque (spool), so that nice as well.

Long story, but considerations for decisions are never simple nor single

[Wally]

Somehow its been too long since an update! And this great forum can use a little more traffic I think.

The 102mm Deutz cylinders have been machined, new JE pistons with dish have arrived also and new JPM cam is awaiting as well.

I had damaged a Pauter valve adjuster, but Pauter wasn't too keen on sending me a replacement, so I looked online (JEGS) for the 3/8-24 adjuster with solid cup. Crower is the one Pauter used as these was exactly the same
Very relieved I found it and it turned out to be the same one!

The new Nascar Ti valves I bought had a very unusual valve angle, so a new cutter (55 degrees) had to be ordered. We still wait till my shop gets it, so the heads can finally be finished as well.

[Wally]

Alright, back to rebuilding this engine

Mocking up for cam timing:


Crank assembly untouched since emoved and will go right back:


This was the damaged cylinderhead, now all repaired again:


Because of the all steel cylinders and the general high engine bay temps I had with the headers on top, I am also upgrading the oil cooler to a bigger (higher) one and have ordered some Naca ducts for the quarter windows, so cool air can enter from another point in the engine bay.
Work to do!

[effvee]

Yes, more eye candy. Are the cylinders deutz ?